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A) Not enough people ask to stickyI love this guide, btw why this isn't stickied? this should be
Thanks for bumping, this has helped a lot.Shamelessly bumping for great justice.
This thread is too win.
Wow that's wrong and misleading.
BCDI:
Fastest Aerial: Grenade Throw/Up Air
what does this mean? to break momentum you can either grenade throw or upair before fast falling?
Well, it should be Stickied. Its obviously very helpful and informative about a staple part of the game.A) Not enough people ask to sticky
B) Theres still more to DI which i havent correctly explained but would if they wanted to sticky it.
So in Snake's case, afaik, his best momentum-cancelling options are this:
- If headed straight up (you didn't DI very well, did you): use an aerial and fastfall it. You might as well use your Up-Air since it'll end earliest. This is what you should do even if you're holding a grenade (uhh assuming the grenade won't explode... and actually, even then it MIGHT be optimal to cancel an airdodge with the grenade-toss and then fastfall, I'd have to do a bunch of frame-data tests to determine which is better -- or maybe you'd like to do them and post the result here!!?? cuz that'd be super cool)
- If headed towards the side kill-zone and you're holding a grenade, airdodge and cancel your airdodge with the grenade-toss and then jump towards the stage (and maybe up-B right away, tho I'm not sure about Snake)
- If headed towards the side kill-zone and you don't have a grenade, airdodge and jump towards the stage
- If headed toward the corner, you'll have to make a judgement call.
HTH!
Any actual basis for that?i beleive snakes bair prevents him from dieing faster then his uair even tho uair is faster
it depends on the direction which you are sent. read my post above yours, or the threads i lynxd in it.Any actual basis for that?
Ah. As I'd mentioned, I hadn't looked at Snake's framedata myself. You are correct (assuming SuSa's correct lol).know that snakes airdodge lasts 40 frames (invincibility lasts til the 32nd), bair lasts 42 frames and upair lasts 47 frames.
Cool. This should be put in the OP, then.if you are sent upwards you must bair + ff. bair is snake's fastest aerial (check susa's frame data). you don't use upair because it extends your hurtbox past the blastzone, killing you earlier than bair would have.
No. I did a lot of experimenting on this and never found any horizontal effect to fastfalling. I looked through your references and only found this:for some reason swordgard has discovered that fastfalling reduces horizontal knockback. take it as it is. please.
It appears Fastfalling affects horizontal momentum as well, so while leaving you in a slightly worse position it is still good to fastfall, then second jump when able to.
So no, I'm quite sure this theory is false until someone can reliably demonstrate otherwise.Er, being able to fast fall reduces horizontal knockback too for some weird reason i believe. I have never actually done exact testing on that part of DI, guess i should.
True; that's another reason it should be removed from the OP.on the note of items....it is unlikely that snake will be holding a grenate as, when hit, it often explodes.
Correction: you are wrong.if by some chance it doesn't then yes, throw it. no need to airdodge first. the throw itself is what does it, and airdodging first gives no frame advantage to my knowledge. correct me if i'm wrong.
Yeah pretty much. Unless you're only worried about the stage ceiling (vertical killzone), in which case the fastfall is more important. Unless you actually have enough time to airdodge and then use a "brake" move (e.g. G&W bucket, wario's bike), but that situation (in which airdodge->brake would be optimal) would be rare.For characters like Ike and Snake that don't have fast aerials that end quick right? But for most characters it's better to do a quick aerial and fastfall correct?
Fastfalling something was mentioned (a jump?) and I said FF doesn't help you when sent horizontally.We just said that.