A Complete Guide to DI and Survival (updated Mar. 6th 2009)

[Crossjeremiah]

Can anyone tell me how I can SDI out of Ike's jab combo? Cos it's so annoying and I get jabbed by an Ike too often but being able to SDI out of it would be advantageous.

Thanks

if your in the air just hold up and away and you can punish like so. and to di out of the jab combo i think you qcdi

 

[swordgard]

if your in the air just hold up and away and you can punish like so. and to di out of the jab combo i think you qcdi

Correct, however, you have to DI away and down(notice his swords come from above, thus if you SDI away you may have time to shield which wont be doable if your in the air ). Also on his first jab, if predicted, you can SDI behind him if close and punish !

 

[Crossjeremiah]

Do you QCDI during 1 hit attacks too?
for example

: Snake -UTILT . Straight up (di input - down left ,down , down right, then diagonal towards not death zone)?

or if your hit straight up just hit the diagonal?


and can you 2 QCDI's and TDIs if your fast enough?

and you can QCDI up correct?

 

[swordgard]

Do you QCDI during 1 hit attacks too?
for example

: Snake -UTILT . Straight up (di input - down left ,down , down right, then diagonal towards not death zone)?

or if your hit straight up just hit the diagonal?


and can you 2 QCDI's and TDIs if your fast enough?

and you can QCDI up correct?

Well, you technically could QCDI downward but its pretty much useless and way too hard to accomplish for 2 reasons.

A) You risk messing up your DI due to very small time frame.
B) No point QCDI-ing down if your already onto the ground since the knockback only applies after DI(which is after QCDI)



You can QCDI/TDI(This is all a variation of smash DI, one is only doing quarter circles the other is smash DI with cstick) twice if theres enough hitlag and in any direction, each hit has different hitlag(throws have none usually). The only thing which cannot be done in every direction is DI(and therefore ASDI since those are read on the same frame), it cannot be done opposite to the direction your sent flying nor in the 2 closest directions.

 

[infomon]

Doesnt matter how fast it comes out, you can FF on the first frame you press the aerial. And yes, the throw of any items is ALWAYS the fastest.

Aaaaactually..... I may have missed exactly what you were talking about, but anyway....

You can start an airdodge earlier in hitstun than you can start an item-throw or aerial. I'm pretty sure that aerials and airdodges can start at exactly the same time.

However, you can cancel the initial frames of an airdodge with an item-throw. So if you have an item, the best thing to do is airdodge > item-throw. UNLESS you reeeeeally think you need to fastfall as early as possible, in which case you're probably better off waiting for your earliest aerial to come out. (You can't fastfall an item-throw, you'd have to wait until its animation is over.)

 

[Atria]

This guide is too good. I'll have to read the rest of it later. Hopefully it gets stickied!

Oh, here's some other character's fastest aerials + strategies to cancel air momentum:

Ike: Both Bair AND Dair are his fastest aerial attacks. However, if he is knocked horizontally, air dodging is the faster option. Ike can cancel momentum even further using his >B however, this is situational depending what stage you play on.

MK: Uair is his fastest aerial and he has a few options to cancel momentum even further when knocked sideways. (Ordered from best method to worst.):

Uair + >B (Situational)
Uair + ^B (Glide cancels momentum)
Uair + jump into a glide (By holding the jump button) (This one may seem no different to the one above, but the method above increases your survivability by 5%. (Damage percentage that is.)

Kirby: Uair is his fastest aerial, not Bair.

Olimar: Uair is his fastest aerial.

Pit: Fair is his fastest aerial. Also, by doing a glide after doing an Fair, you can cancel momentum even further.

Squirtle: Uair is his fastest aerial. Also after doing a Uair, Squirtle can use >B to cancel momentum even further.

Ivysaur: I've been told by people that Bair is Ivysaur's fastest aerial. However from tests I've done, Nair is faster by about a split second, but I've been told that it's harder to fast fall. IDK why though...

Charizard: Bair is Charizard's fastest aerial, not Uair.

 

[Kinzer]

Is Back air really Sonic's fastest aerial?

*Looks at the Parenthesis in the OP.*

...Okay.

 

[infomon]

MK: Uair is his fastest aerial and he has a few options to cancel momentum even further when knocked sideways. (Ordered from best method to worst.):

Uair + >B (Situational)
Uair + ^B (Glide cancels momentum)
Uair + jump into a glide (By holding the jump button) (This one may seem no different to the one above, but the method above increases your survivability by 5%. (Damage percentage that is.)

I think his up-B is extremely situational though. Because you're using it during knockback, it gives MK a huuge boost away from the stage; like if you're flying upwards, the up-B will reach an enormous height that can kill MK. I can believe that in some situations it's better than jump+glide, but I suspect that's a rarity actually. I could be wrong though.

 

[drag0nfeather]

I think his up-B is extremely situational though. Because you're using it during knockback, it gives MK a huuge boost away from the stage; like if you're flying upwards, the up-B will reach an enormous height that can kill MK. I can believe that in some situations it's better than jump+glide, but I suspect that's a rarity actually. I could be wrong though.

I thought the guide says you can't die from jumping too high?

Reason I posted: THIS GUIDE IS AWESOME! QCDI sounds brilliant! I actually do it naturally which makes me proud of myself. Especially when hit by a smart bomb. I constantly double-stick DI too.

 

[swordgard]

I thought the guide says you can't die from jumping too high?

Reason I posted: THIS GUIDE IS AWESOME! QCDI sounds brilliant! I actually do it naturally which makes me proud of myself. Especially when hit by a smart bomb. I constantly double-stick DI too.

Nope, but this is not counting jumping. You actually get the whole knockback to you(aka, there is the jumping part, which cannot kill you, and the reboost in momentum, which can). This reboost in momentum does not apply if you are sent in a purely horizontal manner(it gives you the vertical momentum back, but since its folowing a certain trajectory your getting both horizontal and vertical momentum, unless there was no vertical momentum to begin with, which is very rare). Il try to update the rest soon/.

 

[Atria]

I think his up-B is extremely situational though. Because you're using it during knockback, it gives MK a huuge boost away from the stage; like if you're flying upwards, the up-B will reach an enormous height that can kill MK. I can believe that in some situations it's better than jump+glide, but I suspect that's a rarity actually. I could be wrong though.

Yeah...I thought that at first too, but I convinced by someone that it actually is better than jumping into a glide. I didn't want to believe it at first, but until I actually tried it for myself, I found out that it increases MK's survivability by about 5%, that's not a lot however. Personally, I don't use it myself because the only option MK has of returning to the stage is gliding which can be fairly easy to intercept and once you cancel it, you're left helpless. I'll show you the thread so you can see it for yourself:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217096

 

[infomon]

Yeah...I thought that at first too, but I convinced by someone that it actually is better than jumping into a glide. I didn't want to believe it at first, but until I actually tried it for myself, I found out that it increases MK's survivability by about 5%, that's not a lot however. Personally, I don't use it myself because the only option MK has of returning to the stage is gliding which can be fairly easy to intercept and once you cancel it, you're left helpless. I'll show you the thread so you can see it for yourself:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217096

Hmm, interesting. Why exactly does the shuttle loop help where a regular glide doesn't? Does a SL glide travel faster than a regular glide? Or is it that the extra away-from-the-stage boost you get by using SL is actually somehow less than the boost you'd get by jumping into a glide?

I suppose it will depend, then, on how close you are to the killzone when you get hit (relative to the amount of knockback that was applied to you). I mean, if you have the space to SL without dying, then maybe its glide is better; but there may be situations in which you don't have the space to SL, but a jump+glide alone would save you instead? The situations get more complicated. And yeah side-B is best if you'll actually survive afterwards.

Nope, but this is not counting jumping. You actually get the whole knockback to you(aka, there is the jumping part, which cannot kill you, and the reboost in momentum, which can). This reboost in momentum does not apply if you are sent in a purely horizontal manner(it gives you the vertical momentum back, but since its folowing a certain trajectory your getting both horizontal and vertical momentum, unless there was no vertical momentum to begin with, which is very rare). Il try to update the rest soon/.

I don't really understand this post, sorry. I know that a jump can kill you if you use it during knockback. But maybe you're saying that there are two components to your velocity; the "jump" push (which can't kill you), and the "knockback" push (which gets an extra boost to it when you use a jump during knockback (I can explain why this happens if it matters, btw)). So maybe you can start a jump during knockback, which gets an extra boost, but doesn't kill you because all the knockback (including the boost) are finished their effect by the time you're taken above the killzone? Is that what you're saying? I'll have to think about it more before I'd be ready to agree to something like that. ColinJF would know best, someone should get him in here

 

[fkacyan]

approved by OS!)

Oh gods the irony

 

[Atria]

Hmm, interesting. Why exactly does the shuttle loop help where a regular glide doesn't? Does a SL glide travel faster than a regular glide? Or is it that the extra away-from-the-stage boost you get by using SL is actually somehow less than the boost you'd get by jumping into a glide?

I suppose it will depend, then, on how close you are to the killzone when you get hit (relative to the amount of knockback that was applied to you). I mean, if you have the space to SL without dying, then maybe its glide is better; but there may be situations in which you don't have the space to SL, but a jump+glide alone would save you instead? The situations get more complicated. And yeah side-B is best if you'll actually survive afterwards.

Well for starters, a shuttle loop is faster to initiate than a jump into a glide because the ^B is only 1 action while the other consists of 2 plus, MK takes about a split second to initiate the glide compared to using his ^B. With the ^B, he glides instantly. However, when you do use the ^B, you do get that boost, but since MK swoops around, it's kind of negligible, but when he glides, he still moves back, but it's not much since he's already gliding.

I still kinda debate it's usefulness on stages with fairly close blastzones because I tested that on a large custom stage. Also, when I did do that at a fairly high %, it got me star KO'd a few times because of that boost. So on stages with closer blastzones, I don't think it will save you often as you would like, but again, I was told that it was still useful to do despite that. That guy showed me a video and the stage was Corneria. He explains to me that the guy in the video would've survived longer if he did ^B after doing a Uair, but IDK if that is possible and I can't test it since my Wii stopped working... -_- Someone else will have to do it.

 

[infomon]

Hrrrm. I'm very skeptical, but I also won't be able to use my Wii for mebbe a couple weeks. Blimey!

OH WAIT! Whaddya know, my own video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=vx3ixgO_i8o
Compare 3:14 with 4:18.

I guess MK's jump is slow enough that if your trajectory is steep enough vertically, the jump will take you even higher than a Shuttle Loop. I guess the Shuttle Loop always has a fixed vertical height? So with the glide, it might even be a "vertical braking" effect; you just have to fight the horizontal. Also, MK's jump might indeed be slow enough that SL takes fewer frames to get you gliding than the jump does.

However, there may still be circumstances in which the Uair>jump+glide is better than Uair>SL. I don't know anymore!!

 

[Atria]

Hrrrm. I'm very skeptical, but I also won't be able to use my Wii for mebbe a couple weeks. Blimey!

OH WAIT! Whaddya know, my own video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=CA&hl=en&v=vx3ixgO_i8o
Compare 3:14 with 4:18.

I guess MK's jump is slow enough that if your trajectory is steep enough vertically, the jump will take you even higher than a Shuttle Loop. I guess the Shuttle Loop always has a fixed vertical height? So with the glide, it might even be a "vertical braking" effect; you just have to fight the horizontal. Also, MK's jump might indeed be slow enough that SL takes fewer frames to get you gliding than the jump does.

However, there may still be circumstances in which the Uair>jump+glide is better than Uair>SL. I don't know anymore!!

Lol, I'm not really too sure about this myself! I REALLY wish that I did have access to my Wii. Yeah, apparently MK's ^B doesn't go at a fixed height. Think of it like Pit's and Snake's ^B. Again, I've got another thread to show you on this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217069

I haven't really read through all of it, but I'm pretty sure that the outcome was that if you jump before using ^B, he'll jump at maximum height. Again, I can't try this for myself which sucks ***. From what I remember, the glide does cancel the vertical momentum, but only a small amount horizontally because he is still moving back slightly as he glides. Although, the difference between the 2 options isn't that great as I stated earlier that it was only a 5% difference. However IMO, the ^B option is the easiest one to perform reaction wise compared to the other option. So I think people would be more obliged to use that. Although, the jump into a glide has it's uses too, especially if you aren't at a disastrously high % where you won't gain a lot of glide height to return on stage which will make you easy to intercept plus you have the helpless state to deal with when you cancel the glide once you are on/above the stage.

Yeah, it's evident in that video that the ^B is better than the jump into glide. The ^B prevents MK from reaching the highest platform where as the other option doesn't. Although, the difference isn't that great as you can clearly see, it will only increase your survival by about 5%. So both options are viable, however as I stated earlier, the ^B one will probably be the easier one to perform.

 

[swordgard]

Lol, I'm not really too sure about this myself! I REALLY wish that I did have access to my Wii. Yeah, apparently MK's ^B doesn't go at a fixed height. Think of it like Pit's and Snake's ^B. Again, I've got another thread to show you on this:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=217069

I haven't really read through all of it, but I'm pretty sure that the outcome was that if you jump before using ^B, he'll jump at maximum height. Again, I can't try this for myself which sucks ***. From what I remember, the glide does cancel the vertical momentum, but only a small amount horizontally because he is still moving back slightly as he glides. Although, the difference between the 2 options isn't that great as I stated earlier that it was only a 5% difference. However IMO, the ^B option is the easiest one to perform reaction wise compared to the other option. So I think people would be more obliged to use that. Although, the jump into a glide has it's uses too, especially if you aren't at a disastrously high % where you won't gain a lot of glide height to return on stage which will make you easy to intercept plus you have the helpless state to deal with when you cancel the glide once you are on/above the stage.

Yeah, it's evident in that video that the ^B is better than the jump into glide. The ^B prevents MK from reaching the highest platform where as the other option doesn't. Although, the difference isn't that great as you can clearly see, it will only increase your survival by about 5%. So both options are viable, however as I stated earlier, the ^B one will probably be the easier one to perform.

Ive been doing some research on those, il explain it probably all during next weekend. Horizontal momentum breaking and vertical momentum breaking, also, some others shall be interestingz. Better ways to survive!!!

 

[SuSa]

Can you explain those random %'s that certain moves "spike" if you DI (normally down)?

Snake's grenades do this to Snake at 0%. Shield drop a grenade and hold down, you can actually tech the explosion with good timing. (You can also drop a c4, shield drop 2 grenades, blow up the c4, and hold down.. same thing will happen)

Apparently Pit's fair/dair have this capability.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQ5eGKi_o_k&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxOsTB9vAEM

It'd be nice to figure out how its done, and if theres any ways to predict the %'s that they can do that.

Link's utilt also does it vs Link if you start at 0% and utilt the 2nd Link 3 times while hes holding down. The 3rd one spikes if I remember correctly.

 

[swordgard]

Hmm, i cant seem to be able to tech the nade and c4, please show me a vid of this. 1st vid, simple enough, he DI-ed down, got hit by the fair, his DI made him go on the platform, and he fell off due to walking and fair(look he has no hitstun) . For the second, there really is a part that spikes. No DI in the world can make you fly at this speed in that direction. Unless the hit at this place usually sends almost horizontally, and even then it looks almost to spike directly down.

 

[Bellioes]

Player-1, a respected Diddy, posted this on the Diddy boards in reponse to people saying that B-moves shouldnt be used for momentum canceling (with the exception of a few ie. G&Ws bucket) because you gain back the momentum that you canceled before using the move. I just thought Id post it here to see what you thought cause I dont understand how it would work if what Swordgard said in the guide about B-moves is right. So yeah, here it is;

I'd like to make a correction on this. ADHD showed me this a while ago, but if you go to training mode and put 3 bombs in the middle of FD and then pick up a fourth one, and throw it down so you take 100% damage all at the same time, then you try to DI it. The 3 I've been able to work is Bair > midair jump, Uair > Midiar jump, and BAIR > SIDE-B. This proves that side-b'ing after your bair is still a good way to DI. If you can DI the 4 bomb explosions from the middle of FD you're DIing correctly

Best ways to DI in order:
1. (Only if you have a banana in hand) Throw banana and FF > Midair jump > Bair if needed > side-b if needed
2. Bair and FF > Midair jump > Bair if needed > Side-b if needed
3. Bair and FF > Side-b > bair if needed
4. Uair and FF > Midair jump > Bair if needed > side-b if needed

 

[infomon]

First off, "momentum cancelling" type stuff isn't DI. But it is a part of survival tech.

There are plenty of Specials that are useful for counteracting knockback momentum. There are those which have "braking" effects; that is, they completely set your velocity in a single moment; maybe your horizontal velocity, vertical velocity, or both. G&W's bucket does both and it happens real quick (immediately?) with his down-B. But Sonic's side-B and down-B both have that "braking" effect, it just doesn't happen until after the move is "released" (which takes until like frame 11 or smthg like that).

But other Specials like the side-B of Squirtle/Diddy/Pikachu/Luigi, and many other moves, just "push" against knockback; because they affect the "player controlled" part of knockback (which you can think of as a "fall speed" with both horizontal and vertical components, afaik). You'll keep flying away from the stage, and you might even get an extra boost away from the stage for using these moves, but they can help fight the knockback with enough force that it's worth it. It will depend on the situation; your speed and proximity to whatever killzone, etc.

HTH..

 

[Bellioes]

So its better to use ForwardB than to just jump right after the first Bair?
I knew that specials with braking effects were used but I didnt know that you could use them to just resist knockback too.

EDIT: I actually asked him on MSN and your right. B moves wont give you back the horizontal momentum that you canceled, just the VERTICAL momentum. So moves that give you a horizontal boost will help when trying to survive a hit.

 

[t3h n00b]

For the best aerials to use, where did you get bair for Captain Falcon? Uair is faster, not that it's a big deal. But Falcon doesn't even have complete frame data done yet

 

[hdrevolution123]

Sdi

Can someone explain to me again how I can SDI during the hitlag (or something) after an attack that freezes you? I want to know how to SDI so I can try my reflexes to survive even longer. And what is QCDI? I did find it quite difficult to comprehend what swordgard was trying to explain here

 

[t3h n00b]

Can someone explain to me again how I can SDI during the hitlag (or something) after an attack that freezes you? I want to know how to SDI so I can try my reflexes to survive even longer. And what is QCDI? I did find it quite difficult to comprehend what swordgard was trying to explain here

It really was explained well in the OP, I guess I can try to help but it will be half paraphrasing.

When you register an input during hitlag, you are instantly teleported a small distance in that direction (SDI). QCDI is rotating the control stick in a quarter circle around the direction you want to DI in to maximize your inputs.

 

[hdrevolution123]

It really was explained well in the OP, I guess I can try to help but it will be half paraphrasing.

When you register an input during hitlag, you are instantly teleported a small distance in that direction (SDI). QCDI is rotating the control stick in a quarter circle around the direction you want to DI in to maximize your inputs.

QCDI is the most effective type of SDI? And what's the OP?

 

[t3h n00b]

Yes, QCDI is the best way to SDI with the control stick because it registers the most inputs. You can also use your c-stick to DI (just the direction, QCDI only works with the control stick) to get the best possible SDI. OP just stands for original (first) post.

 

[Met]

Yes, QCDI is the best way to SDI with the control stick because it registers the most inputs. You can also use your c-stick to DI (just the direction, QCDI only works with the control stick) to get the best possible SDI. OP just stands for original (first) post.

look at all you crazy people trying to make brawl sound technical haha woogie woogie suck my whenier ballz haha ..... brawl sucks.

 

[t3h n00b]

look at all you crazy people trying to make brawl sound technical haha woogie woogie suck my whenier ballz haha ..... brawl sucks.

Cool post bro, I'll tone down my abbreviations so I don't hurt your eyes. MELEE 4 EVER!!!
The thread is about Brawl mechanics, so why post here saying that the game sucks? You don't have to play it

 

[Met]

haha brawl sucks fart fart splunk.

 

[Cross.]

A quick question say im hit to the right which way should I sdi? Left?

 

[Met]

A quick question say im hit to the right which way should I sdi? Left?

lolz 10jankslolzing

 

[t3h n00b]

A quick question say im hit to the right which way should I sdi? Left?

SDI won't really help unless it's a multi-hit move. On those, you SDI in the direction that will get you out of the move the easiest (sometimes up, away, behind the opponent). If you mean DI, if the move sends you to the side more than it sends you up, DI upwards will help you live longer. If the move sends you upwards, DI to the side (towards the farthest blastzone).

 

[Met]

yeah thats it baby give me all the points i love em keep em coming.

 

[Iwolfe]

BCDI:
Fastest Aerial:



Ummm welll...what's his fastest aerial? It says FASTEST AERIAL: ....that's it? Sooo....[BLANK] is his aerial? Anyways...this is a great ...i mean GREAT post....but i saw some errors and this...THIS....I'm trying to get better with pit, and i've been looking for weeks for something like this, (i will not look anymore >.>) but it's incomplete so i don't see why you didn't change this on the date of 4/7/09 ?

 

[t3h n00b]

You can check that yourself, it's not very hard. I don't have Brawl right now, but I think Pit's fastest aerial is fair, and if not, it's negligible.

 

[Iwolfe]

ehhh... Thx anyways. And thx lolz....I guess.. .:D and thx for replying so fast But i g2g. so thx again. bayez :D

 

[swordgard]

ehhh... Thx anyways. And thx lolz....I guess.. .:D and thx for replying so fast But i g2g. so thx again. bayez :D

For all the previous troll posts in my thread. Brawl haters, please get out. I dont feel like doing yet another brawl debate with people whom are obviously not good at either game.



Anyways, sorry i didnt update this, i finish school on may 25th, this will be updated on may 27(i got a long schedule for the week after school finishes which all has to do with brawl XD )

 

[hdrevolution123]

What's the simplest way of SDIing out of Ike's very spammy jab combo?

 

[swordgard]

What's the simplest way of SDIing out of Ike's very spammy jab combo?

If your very close to him first hit you sdi behind, if not, away and down(because the third hit comes from above and if you SDI up itl come faster to you, if you just SDI away and down you may have enough time to shield last hit.)