A Complete Guide to DI and Survival (updated Mar. 6th 2009)

[hdrevolution123]

If your very close to him first hit you sdi behind, if not, away and down(because the third hit comes from above and if you SDI up itl come faster to you, if you just SDI away and down you may have enough time to shield last hit.)

Thanks. I'm really sorry but what's the controller input for this? I haven't absorbed any info about what we input for various types of SDI- cos I suck

 

[ndayday]

During hitlag, tap the direction you want to go in, or QCDI in that direction. (Rotate Control Stick in that direction)

 

[uhmuzing]

Now THIS is mastery. I have GOT to learn this; advanced as ever. Heck, yeah!

 

[wangston]

Quick question about sdi. Does it mater if i use both control stick and c-stick in the same direction to sdi, will it give a greater effect when I use both or does it just count as one input. Also can I use either/or because some times I mess up on sdiing kirby's fthrow uair combo and I lose my jump because i used the joystick and hit up.

 

[SuSa]

Last I checked OS's ROB Guide mis-used tons of terms and his advice on "DI" was horrible...at least according to a few Smash Researchers I spoke to.

But nice thread..again

 

[t3h n00b]

Quick question about sdi. Does it mater if i use both control stick and c-stick in the same direction to sdi, will it give a greater effect when I use both or does it just count as one input. Also can I use either/or because some times I mess up on sdiing kirby's fthrow uair combo and I lose my jump because i used the joystick and hit up.

For DI, either stick can be used, but only one directional input will be registered (the c-stick has priority). For SDI, both sticks can be used simultaneously to maximize the distance (especially if QCDI is done on the control stick). If you use one stick to SDI, it will work, but you may not get the distance you'd like (not sure if it would be sufficient to escape the Gonzo combo). If you hit up on the control stick only during hitlag, you'll SDI up and not lose your jump, but that is very hard to do, so the c-stick would be a better option if you can escape the combo without maximizing your number of inputs.

 

[swordgard]

Last I checked OS's ROB Guide mis-used tons of terms and his advice on "DI" was horrible...at least according to a few Smash Researchers I spoke to.

But nice thread..again

Hence why this was updated to have smash researchers term . This was reviewed by them and everything seems right, except i gotta update a few things on the momentum shifting using B moves.

 

[SuSa]

Hence why this was updated to have smash researchers term . This was reviewed by them and everything seems right, except i gotta update a few things on the momentum shifting using B moves.

I was talking about OS not you. Him approving it means very, very little to me.

 

[swordgard]

I was talking about OS not you. Him approving it means very, very little to me.

Oh, i just didnt knew what to say anymoar in the actual title XD. This requires stickyness!

 

[Arzengel]

Man its a great thread, no discussions, but you used sooooo much mathematical terms, that makes most of the lectue very linear and absoluely boring. Seriously.

Simpler concepts always work better, makes you focus on whats really important.

I appreciate the concepts and all, but thats only if we were physics or engineers who really want to know whats going on, specially in REAL LIFE situations. But for a mere fiction, fantastic, law-less game? GET REAL.

 

[SuSa]

Sword

Any way to test something...

I call it pseudo-spiking. It is completely based off DI and % of the character being hit.

I don't know the %'s and it varies per character but here's a list of moves I've seen spike:

I've seen Pit's fair spike.
Marth's fair spike.
Marth's uair spike.
Marth's fsmash spike (yes spike..) (and I teched it in place <3 and punished him)
Falco's bair spike
Falco's usmash spike...
King DeDeDe's utilt spike...
Snake's utilt Spike
Link's utilt spike
Wolf's usmash spike
Wario's utilt spike


and by spike I actually mean straight down knockback with the ability to tech them all

Out of these, here is a way you can test Link's uptilt:

It may work in training with a cpu set to control, but versus mode is much more likely since it is % based:

Needs 2 controllers.

Have controller 2 hold DOWN the entire time.

Have controller 1 utilt controller 2 three or four times

Controller 2 should be psuedo spiked.

Easier way that you can do in Training mode with 1 controller:

Choose Snake

Place c4
Press B > Shield > Press B > Shield (shield drop 2 grenades)
Blow up C4 and hold down
Psueo-Spike

(You can also just do this with 1 grenade AFAIK or 2 grenades.....your start % must be 0 IIRC it may work for 0-4%)





__________

I think this can be done with most moves, and it's all within a given %. This can actually advance the game a bit because if you happen to know your opponents moves will spike you at "x" % you can hold down, get Psuedo-Spiked, tech it, and punish them.

Of course, it's also just interesting to know.

 

[HiddenBowser]

The only reason I looked in this thread is because of the title XD... OS's a scrub.

Nice guide though. I liked the pictures.

 

[swordgard]

Sword

Any way to test something...

I call it pseudo-spiking. It is completely based off DI and % of the character being hit.

I don't know the %'s and it varies per character but here's a list of moves I've seen spike:

I've seen Pit's fair spike.
Marth's fair spike.
Marth's uair spike.
Marth's fsmash spike (yes spike..) (and I teched it in place <3 and punished him)
Falco's bair spike
Falco's usmash spike...
King DeDeDe's utilt spike...
Snake's utilt Spike
Link's utilt spike
Wolf's usmash spike
Wario's utilt spike


and by spike I actually mean straight down knockback with the ability to tech them all

Out of these, here is a way you can test Link's uptilt:

It may work in training with a cpu set to control, but versus mode is much more likely since it is % based:

Needs 2 controllers.

Have controller 2 hold DOWN the entire time.

Have controller 1 utilt controller 2 three or four times

Controller 2 should be psuedo spiked.

Easier way that you can do in Training mode with 1 controller:

Choose Snake

Place c4
Press B > Shield > Press B > Shield (shield drop 2 grenades)
Blow up C4 and hold down
Psueo-Spike

(You can also just do this with 1 grenade AFAIK or 2 grenades.....your start % must be 0 IIRC it may work for 0-4%)





__________

I think this can be done with most moves, and it's all within a given %. This can actually advance the game a bit because if you happen to know your opponents moves will spike you at "x" % you can hold down, get Psuedo-Spiked, tech it, and punish them.

Of course, it's also just interesting to know.

Its all only at very low percent and happens on first frame of hit stun. Its actually because on such moves the knockback at low % isnt that great and you can tech if you ASDI into the ground when you start from the air. Simply put, multi hit moves like 2 nades make it so that the first nade puts you in the air, so that the second will hit you and wou will ASDI into the ground thus making you tech. I explained ASDI in my guide for more info on how to do it.

However, what is important to notice as to why it only works at low percent is because on first frame of hitstun you still have knockback that incurs and ASDI will also happen on the same frame, meaning it will be a result of both knockback.

For example, robs dsmash has only horizontal knockback in it, meaning when you hold up, ASDI occurs and you get shoot in a diagonal upward fashion. Please note that robs dsmash being naturally a multi hit move incurs no regular DI (which usually is read on the same frame as ASDI, except for grabs which have no ASDI ).

Then you have moves like marths fsmash, which can be teched at low percent because not only because the vertical knockback is low and ASDI overall will counter it on first frame and make you bounce into the ground, but normal DI will also reduce your vertical knockback(your holding down, meaning changing your direction to something more horizontal), making it thus possible for ASDI into ground to work a bit longer than other attacks.

Finally you have attacks that send you near completely upward where holding down will not affect DI but only ASDI because you cant DI more than in perpendicular, which means it will have no effect. These moves such as fox's upsmash can only be teched from the air and very close to the ground and at low % because the ASDI acts alone to try and counter the knockback.



Il try to update this this afternoon, at worst tommorow, stay tuned for some new info.

EDIT: Bowyer, i knew putting OS would get me more views, i dont care as to why lol.

 

[SuSa]

I was hit down at 72% by Snakes utilt.

It's not just low %'s.


But the rest of your description fit nicely.

 

[swordgard]

I was hit down at 72% by Snakes utilt.

It's not just low %'s.


But the rest of your description fit nicely.

Weird, weak part of uptilt probably + very very close to the ground probably.

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Ganon's fastest aerial is UAir, not BAir.

 

[SuSa]

Weird, weak part of uptilt probably + very very close to the ground probably.

Close to ground - no

Weak part of utilt - I think it was. Most likely was.

 

[JUDGE]

COOOL!!!
good job man!!!

 

[Overswarm]

Last I checked OS's ROB Guide mis-used tons of terms and his advice on "DI" was horrible...at least according to a few Smash Researchers I spoke to.

But nice thread..again

I wrote it about two months after the game's release.... and my DI is pretty **** good.

 

[kaak]

How to DI out of snake's Nair?

 

[The Sìrén]

wow, this is helping me alot. O_O

 

[JUDGE]

OMG this.......is.......amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AnDaLe]

Good stuff, I know some ppl that do really good DQCDI + Smash DI, and they survive crazily like up to 145% with a D3 Fsmash. But thats on wifi >.>

 

[Winnar]

Tagged for later reading.

 

[jpl315]

are the fastest aerials for sure correct?...some of the characters' boards have frame data in which the aerial that ends fastest is not the one in this threads appendix...

 

[Tidal]

Few questions, I just read the whole thing and trying to figure out what commands I have to input exactly (in 0.1 seconds lol ).

With normal DI, you can change your angle of launch. OP says you alter it by inputting either a horizontal or a vertical vector. But if you are launched to the right and a bit up, isn't it better to input the diagonal "up and left"? Can diagonal inputs help normal DI, or can only straight ones? 'cause if they can, I'd just remember to always input 90 degrees against the launch angle.

Also, I'm confused about the combination of normal DI and SDI (which includes SDI ASDI and TDI). The OP says you DI towards the diagonal corners, but SDI against the move itself. Say you are launched straight to the right by a fat smash, you would SDI straight to the left to get away from the edge and also end up behind the attacker, giving a chance for a walltech or something. But according to the normal DI, you should input straight up to change the angle. Now how to you manage to input both straight left AND straight up at the same frame at the end of hitlag?

 

[infomon]

For normal DI.... let's put it like this. Say an attack normally sends you at x degrees from the horizontal. If your control stick is between (x - 90degrees) through (x + 90degrees), then you have DI input. If instead your control stick is somewhere in the other 180degrees (which represents pushing "backwards" against the attack's default launch direction), then your control stick is ignored.

If your input is at (x - 90degrees) or (x + 90degrees), at these locations your DI affects your resultant trajectory the most. If the attack would have sent you straight up, and your DI is to the straight left, then you will go at about a 45degree angle, which is the most that DI could have changed your direction. If your control stick was aimed at a 45 degree angle, then you will end up going at something like a 67.5 degree angle. And if your control stick was pointed straight up, of course that's like having no DI.

So x+90 or x-90 gives you the most effect of DI, but that's not necessarily where you want to go. You usually want to aim so that you'll get to the corner.... but you've also got to take into account your momentum-cancelling strategy, etc. to decide how you want to get there.

tl;dr: don't take the OP too seriously. With the SDI case... yeah, SDI where you think it will help you, there's no general rule.

 

[Skadorski]

If you arn't going to update this then ignore me but Zelda's fastest aerial is Bair and Olimar's is Uair

 

[SuSa]

Apparently OS didn't even read your thread.... http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8102079&postcount=55

So you should change the title to "approved by SuSa"

 

[Nixernator]

Does the Quarter Circle DI work with the C-Stick? And also does holding up on the C-Stick do the same as holding up on the Control stick?

 

[Stockfield]

This is really helpful, I haven't finished reading though have to get back to that.

 

[JUDGE]

woooow didn't know that someone can write so much just about DI
great job dude^^

 

[Meru.]

Wow, great job, you've must have worked hard on this :O

 

[marth13]

Whoa. That's quite a wall of text there. But every bit of it is excellent.

 

[GreenFox]

I dont know if its just me but if you dont know alot about DI not much of this makes sense. I still got it but If its a guide why is it so complicated it still is very informative and helped me alot. Thank you

 

[Shress]

I don't think you explained QCDI that well; it was rather confusing. I'm not sure if you tap the control stick 3 times in a quarter circle, or if you actually move your control stick in a quarter circle.

 

[uhmuzing]

I think this deserves to be on the front page.

 

[ViletheJoker!]

I've read this thread a couple of times now and it seems to be very helpful thanks for this thread.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6V4HDXpFIo
B reversal to momentum cancel while saving your second jump.

 

[infomon]

^^ as far as I know this only works with Zelda; the b-reversal's momentum-changing properties can give you an extra boost away from the stage with some other chars. So ppl should test this with their mains