Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[Omni]

Against Olimar, if you d-air his shield at the latest time possible does he have enough frames to punish with shield grab, or are you able to stop the shieldgrab with a jab? I think latter is true but I'm not too sure.

Does anyone know if Falco's chain grab combo (and many of his similar combos) are deliberately part of his design or just glitches?

There's really no way for us to give you a definite answer on this. If you want my opinion I'd say no. I don't think Brawl beta testers test this game on a competitive level.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dude do you even know how to search frame data?

Olimars grab = 11 frames
Falco's dair = -8
Falco's jab = frame 2

So yeah, jab interupts his grab if you perfect dair. Same counts for a perfect nair.

 

[dainbramage]

well, if you'd bother to check the frame data, our dair has an 8 frame disadvantage on block. Olimar's standing grab is 11 frames. We can jab on frame 2. Hence...


you're gonna get upsmashed. So aim your dair such that you land behind his shield.


EDIT: Ninjad by xonah

 

[Omni]

well according to the frame data a silent laser to f-tilt shouldn't combo.

but it does.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

On hit?
The frame data has shield advantages only lol

 

[Omni]

Silent Lasers at best has a +3 frame advantage. So really, only jab works. Anything else falco has hits earliest on frame 4 or later.

jab combos into grab

ah, they told me it didn't combo. also didnt realize it was shield adv. only.

sweet.

another question: i was watching DEHF vs. Ally lastnight. he seemed to be using the phantasm really well to blow up grenades while avoiding the explosion himself. reminded me of MK being able to upB grenades safely. so im assuming a part of his overb is invincible? what part of the overb is the exactly?

(sry for having so many questions. lately i cant stop thinking about falco)

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

jab doesnt combo into grab lol

 

[Omni]

that's what i thought, too?

i was under the impression the only time jab actually goes into grab is if the jab is timed when a person attempts to jump. then that landing lag gives falco time to grab.

 

[Anxiety]

another question: i was watching DEHF vs. Ally lastnight. he seemed to be using the phantasm really well to blow up grenades while avoiding the explosion himself. reminded me of MK being able to upB grenades safely. so im assuming a part of his overb is invincible? what part of the overb is the exactly?

(sry for having so many questions. lately i cant stop thinking about falco)

The first 1/3 of phantasm is invincible. So the grenade has to be relatively close to you for you not to get damaged by it.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

There is no invincibility, noobs. There's just only a hurtbox at the start, middle and end.

 

[Omni]

If there's a hurtbox at the start, middle, and the end.... then I need to hit with the parts two parts in between it seems.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Yup you do. The spacing is really precise but it's possible.

 

[Omni]

Does this mean that if Falco times it properly he can grab a grenade and overb so that when the grenade explodes his hurtbox isn't there?

Or if I get the distance right I can grab a grenade and overb into another grenade causing them both to explode?

hm... idk, i think grenades have a weird hitbox that stays out longer than normal. not sure

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Nope, like I said, the hurtbox is only in the start, middle and end. Falco only appears in the start, middle and end. If you hold a grenade and sideB, you won't appear on the places with no hurtbox, so you won't get "invincibility" while it explodes.

 

[Omni]

I don't get it. If you're technically not there during those two parts of the phantasm and the grenade is timed to explode during that time...

Then shouldn't the grenade just explode and... I won't be there?

Which reminds me, I've never tested this out but I wonder what happens to MK if he does IDC while holding a grenade. omg or even just a well timed overb.

hmmmm *brain juices a'flowin*

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

No, let's say phantasm takes 3 frames:
frame1: falco is at the start
frame2: falco is at the middle
frame3: falco is at the end

Do you get it now?

 

[AndGravy]

Anyone know where the specific frame data is for phantasm and the cancel frames? I remember seeing it starts at like 14 frames -- full cancel on 14th frame -- and the other cancel lengths are like frames 15-17.

We really should have this info at hand since it is one of the most common questions

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Phantasm explaination for the XXth time But, now with quotes and diagrams :O

Perfect IAP
Frame 1-6 - Jump animation.
Frame 7-22 - Start-up.
Frame 23 - "Ping" noise. Hitbox comes out. Press B to cancel at shortest possible distance.
Frame 24 - Press B to cancel at mid distance.
Frame 25 - Press B to cancel at longest distance.
Frame 26-43 - Cooldown.
Frame 44 - Other actions can be performed if the Phantasm was cancelled at the shortest possible distance.
Frame 45 - Other actions can be performed if the Phantasm was cancelled at mid distance.
Frame 46 - Other actions can be performed if the Phantasm was cancelled at the longest distance.
Frame 47-50 - Cooldown for uncancelled Phantasm.
Frame 51 - Other actions can be universally performed.

Falco is the blue box. Red box is the hitbox. Brown is the borders between slides. Black is the stage.

>>Falco is stuck in 23 frames before anything happens. Simple hurtbox.
>>On frame 24, falco literally teleports between the start-up location and the midway distance for phantasm. At this location, the hitbox appears behind falco while his hurtbox is out in front.
>>On frame 25, the same thing happens like it did on frame 24, falco teleports again, but this time the hitbox appears between the midway and ending points of the move. Again, falco's hurbox is infront of the hitbox.
>> The rest of the frames are cooldown.

The move is really weak. It's a hitbox that will clash with anything, and Falco can even get hit out of it in the middle, end or start-up lag. If you can space anything between those middle, end, and start-up points, the move is in a sense unpunishable because you pull some MK infinite dimensional cape BS with phantasm. Plus, it's in a way a huge hitbox that lasts for only a frame. Talk about broken lol

 

[AndGravy]

Awesome, thanks!

New question: Who is a good secondary for Falco? I'm pretty good with kirby and big DK, but they don't seem to cover a lot of Falco's weaknesses. I've started playing marth and I like him. Is he a good option?

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Awesome, thanks!

New question: Who is a good secondary for Falco? I'm pretty good with kirby and big DK, but they don't seem to cover a lot of Falco's weaknesses. I've started playing marth and I like him. Is he a good option?

Hmm... If you agree that falco's really only troublesome match-ups are ICs and Pikachu, go with someone that beats them both or goes even. Marth for example.

 

[Choice]

falco really doesnt need a secondary. mk is always an amazing secondary though.

 

[pulse131]

in my case and in most others ive seen, falco IS the secondary, other then that the usual hardcore falco mainers use him and him alone.

 

[Choice]

i really dont think falco is that good as a secondary because of how popular of a character he is. well i guess it depends on what match ups he's used for. like the ones that he overwhelms he's a fine secondary.

 

[pulse131]

well i suppose if you like at it like, falcos 3 bad matchups, pika, rob and icies, and find a character that works well on them, your set.
not sure myself which character youd exactly want to pick for playing against those 3 (other then mk but ya).
one good option i could come up with off the top of my head would be peach. goes even with pika and rob, beats out icies well. or if your looking for another high tier marth is always a good choice. good against all 3 of them AND just about everyone else.

 

[Choice]

rob isnt a bad match up, its actually bad for rob. pika and ic's are as bad as it gets i guess.

 

[hippiedude92]

i main luigi and second falco

luigi can cover pika, rob and sometimes ics (6/4 isn't too shabby but solid though)

just using falco cuz hes fun and covering stressful mus and if my opponent can cover my character's options completely (luigi relies on gimmicks =D )

 

[pulse131]

could have sworn ROB>falco. MU thread outdated like mad?

 

[AndGravy]

Thanks for the input. I plan on using Falco for pretty much any serious matches unless I come across some people crazy good with IC or pika. That's a small reason I want to get good with another character.

Going to go with marth for my secondary for two reasons. I just want a secondary so I can prove I'm not just "character-specific" skilled, and I just want to have other characters for friendlies.

Plus, I just love marths dair spike. Falco's is bomb-diggity, but marth's is just plain fun

 

[pulse131]

l0ol bomb diggity.
marth is just plain female ;p

 

[AndGravy]

Harsh...

But yeah, he is a woman

 

[Blacknight99923]

I suggest you take these marth jokes over to the marth boards
or I'll switch from siding falco to siding pikachu MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA 0-100 time

 

[pulse131]

marth jokes shall stay in the falco boards.
falco mainers gotta stay out of marths range o.o

 

[Choice]

pikachu is not 0-100. thats like pika's mu vs marth or somethin. cg to =(

 

[pulse131]

lmao nice choice. for a second i thought you were serious and was like,,,,uh. what? l0ol

 

[Choice]

i'm serious. pikachu isnt 0-100 vs falco.

0-100 is marth's **** mu vs pika. he's got that cg to sad face.

--thats essentially what i said.

for reals though, marth played well looks so tight. mike haze's matches always look so beautiful.

 

[pulse131]

l0ol marth cg ***** pika what?
and yes i know its not 100-0 for the falco pika one

 

[Choice]

marth cg on pikachu:

down throw x 10 > forward step cancel into forwardsmash tipper (53%)
thats like 2/3's of his stock!

the ****~

 

[Tommy_G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC5HmUM2LDE&feature=related

Marth is too cool.

 

[Kasper!]

I HAVE A QUESTION

what are the 7 fastest things that can be done out of sheild.

 

[Tommy_G]

I HAVE A QU[highlight]S[/highlight]ESTION

what are the 7 fastest things that can be done out of sheild.

Spot dodge= invuln frame 2
Rolls=Invuln frame 4
Grab= 6 frames
Shield drop=6 frames
Up smash=9 frames if perfectly buffered(frame 1=jump, frames 2-9 usmash)
Jab-8 frames=2 frames+shield drop(6 frames i believe)
Dash attack=10 frames
Utilt=10 frames(dash attack is easier to buffer)
Nair=10 frames
Bair=11 frames
Dair=12 frames
Jump reflector=12-14 frames(frame 1-7 going airborne, 8-11 startup, hits on frame 12)

Average Reaction Time=12 frames.