BBR Weekly Character Discussion #1: Diddy Kong

[Omni]

on what basis are you choosing Wario to be in the top 3?

 

[Marc]

I don't know Diddy all that well, but I am wondering how bad his worst matchups are. Several characters are mentioned and it's probably true that the MK army helps out in fighting them off in the US, but players like ADHD no doubt run into them at some point and still manage to come out on top at big tournaments. One of the best European players (istudying) uses Diddy and Ice Climbers and we have a more balanced representation of characters in tournaments. Despite that, he consistently places in the money. This suggests those bad matchups aren't crippling.

 

[ShadowLink84]

on what basis are you choosing Wario to be in the top 3?

MK is undoubtedly the best character in the game.
Despite how Jason may yell and scream, this is a fact.

Now as much as Ally annoys the heck out of me when he trolls, I do agere with him in regards to Snake. He just is not as good as he appeared. He is a very solid character, butdue to his matchups, I cannot see him as being within the top 3. I can certainly see him as being 4th though.

I would say Wario primarily because his gameplay is more solid than Snake an, I would argue Diddy. He is much more flexible than Diddy when it comes to being CP'ed.
Wario does not have a great offensive game, he cannot approach directly against many characters and so he relies on his aerial mobility.

While I do believe he has issues with characters such as Marth and metaknight. He still performs very solidly against the rest of the cast.
Yes his recent results aren't stellar, but the only one who ever had stellar results were MK and Snake.
Snake only because MK was knocking away his poor matchups. One of which was Wario.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

I agree with the notion that Diddy has better item control tools than the rest of the cast.
The height of his short hop (good for re-catching shielded bananas), his glide toss length, and various positioning aspects after throwing (ideal for 2-banana locks) are all in his favor.

However. I also agree with the notion that stage counterpicks really hurt him. Especially if RC and Brinstar are both in a tournament's counterpick list. In 3/5 matches, once two of the starters are exhausted (assuming the opponent bans one, likely FD), he's quite hindered when trying to get a solid stage for that last win.

That said, Omni's summation of the characters below Diddy is a good indicator as to why he should not drop in the next tier list.

i still think Diddy is 3rd best

who's better than Diddy besides Snake? character wise and performance wise

- IC's? no
- Falco? no
- Olimar or DDD? no and no
- Wario? MAYBE, but he hasnt been performing too well based on tournament performance

adhd is having a slump AND people are learning how to use the nanerz better. and i use slump loosely because he still dominates his region (anti is a strong force there as well). still, i dont see him being anywhere below top 3.

MK, Snake, Diddy for top 3. what other characters can possibly be in the top 3 zone?

 

[Count]

What Marc said is true-Peach and Luigi really aren't that bad.

Snake is tough but I think if diddy figures it out its close to even. ADHD hasn't lost to a non Ally snake in ages.

 

[AllyKnight]

ADHD almost beat me at Showdown, very fun set and it was 3-2 last hit o.O.

 

[Hylian]

ADHD almost beat me at Showdown, very fun set and it was 3-2 last hit o.O.

I watched that, it was very good. Your games with gnes at mlg were also entertaining.

 

[Alphicans]

With MLG rules I think diddy is 5-7th best. Pound4 rules, maybe 4-5th best. Lots has already been said, but it really comes down to the counter-pick game, and the fact that his bananas work well against him as well.

 

[Omni]

With MLG rules I think diddy is 5-7th best. Pound4 rules, maybe 4-5th best. Lots has already been said, but it really comes down to the counter-pick game, and the fact that his bananas work well against him as well.

O_O

is that so

 

[Marcbri]

I have the same feeling that diddy may not be that good as we thought some months ago buut as some people said, who would be third then? I can't see falco or Ics being above diddy atm, the only ones I would maybe consider as better characters are Marth and Wario.

Marth doesn't have trouble vs some mid tiers like diddy does, destroys most characters and his only real problem are MK and D3
On the other hand, Wario, unlike diddy ( or ics or falco, who are way worse there), doesn't mind much playing in cps and has pretty good match-ups overall.

About diddy itself, its worse con. are counterpick stages, but to me its not really different between pound 4 and mlg rules, odds are he'll get a gay counterpick anyways, and it doesn't matter if there are a lot, you just need two stages to get rid of the ban and still counterpick him. About the starter stages in MGL, I don't see diddy doing that bad there, he's not very good on delfino, but Stadium is one of his best stages and halberd and castle siege aren't bad for him either.

On the other hand, some people has said that diddy is a gimmick character, although the inexperience versus him makes the match-up really hard, he can still do pretty good as long as he's good with items ( for example not throwing the nana randomly because a player used to it will easily catch it and then avoid diddy's approach)

About this last point I'm interested to see the results of Apex and the rest of MLG to confirm this.

 

[AllyKnight]

ADHD isnt going to Apex sadly.

I still think ICS can potentionally be above Diddy

 

[MetalMusicMan]

i still think Diddy is 3rd best

who's better than Diddy besides Snake? character wise and performance wise

- IC's? no
- Falco? no
- Olimar or DDD? no and no
- Wario? MAYBE, but he hasnt been performing too well based on tournament performance

adhd is having a slump AND people are learning how to use the nanerz better. and i use slump loosely because he still dominates his region (anti is a strong force there as well). still, i dont see him being anywhere below top 3.

MK, Snake, Diddy for top 3. what other characters can possibly be in the top 3 zone?

Yerp.

Metaknight - M2K, Havok, Tyrant, Tearbear, Dojo, Judge, Anti, Shadow, Seibrik, Ally (lol)
Snake - Ally, Razer (no one else comes close to these two imo)
Diddy - ADHD, Gnes, uhm... Felix/Ninjalink? Nah, those two aren't on ADHD/Gnes level.
Falco - DEHF (SK92 isn't up there anymore, Keitaro is up there)
IC's - Meh. Lain's been slacking. Meep uses Fox. Atomsk? Swordgad? =/ No one plays IC's.

Like AZ said, Diddy's ability to do well compared to the rest of the cast against MK with a combination of MK filtering most of Diddy's bad match-ups out is what puts him at Top 3. I believe ADHD and Gnes have the best performance behind Ally and Razer. And just as a character Diddy doesn't have any specific match-ups where it's HEAVILY not in his favor. Falco has Pikachu and IC's to deal with. IC's, themselves, have more tough match-ups than Diddy IMO.

I really think Diddy is a solid 3rd best in the cast.

I strongly agree with Omni here. Again, maybe there is some merit to saying that Diddy might drop in the future, but that's a speculation that doesn't reflect his current viability.



I also agree with Count in that Diddy is not a purely gimmick based character. Yes, he has gimmicks--what character doesn't?--and maybe some Diddy's relied on them in the past, but I don't think he's dependent on them. The bananas are a solid mechanic-- again, perhaps it's possible that they aren't as solid as we think, but I have not seen that reflected in the current metagame.


I don't see how any of Diddy's matchups are really all that bad either... it's like when people say Pikachu has "bad matchups against low tiers"... I don't think they are really that "bad" at all, that's a pretty exaggerated statement.

 

[AllyKnight]

Wait, Performance wise too? Snake doenst place fooo shiz LOL he only places in MA (all scrubs other than Koolaid and Bizkit/Fatal)

FL (hrnut sometimes)

TX (Razer usualy gets 5, 3,2,1)

and ME !!!! ( i dont use snake nemore, he bores me =l)

snake shouldnt be top 3 then! he doesnt place gooodish

back to diddy, he peels bananas in a second, and doesnt have anything in it, broken.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Wait, Performance wise too? Snake doenst place fooo shiz LOL he only places in MA (all scrubs other than Koolaid and Bizkit/Fatal)

FL (hrnut sometimes)

TX (Razer usualy gets 5, 3,2,1)

and ME !!!! ( i dont use snake nemore, he bores me =l)

snake shouldnt be top 3 then! he doesnt place gooodish

back to diddy, he peels bananas in a second, and doesnt have anything in it, broken.

Snake's placements are better / more consistent than most other characters except MK, though... plus, I don't think this is all *solely* based on placings. If it were, we would just copy and paste Ankoku's data and call that our tier list.

 

[AllyKnight]

i guess. going to bed..

 

[OverLade]

wait wait

just to make this clear

marth is GARBAGE compared to diddy against MK

Fixed.

i never find other MKs hard, EVER. I think he is overrated in the same way that I think Marth is overrated in Melee. I've never found a marth hard in melee, and the more I learn what to do, it becomes ridiculously easier.

i think tier list is

Diddy (with pound4 rules)
MK
Snake/Falco any order
ICs
Wario
Olimar

something like that, then idk who after. Maybe like Pikachu or ... man I don't know after that

That's inui logic wtf.

Gnes is harder for me than Tyrant so Diddy is better than MK?

Diddy is a solid char and overall could at best tie with Snake. Snake is just a extremely difficult character to use and doesn't perform that well outside of the highest level of play which is why nobody except the absolute best snakes are consistent (snakes like Bizkit/Infern/Hall don't place consistently even though they're on the lower end of the top 10 snakes) .

Snake has slightly better matchups than Diddy which is why he should be 2nd but he's harder to play (not get gimped etc) which is why you just don't see much consistency. Snake and Diddy could tie up at best...

Falco is good but gets gimmicked and has random close matchups with bad characters...

ICs is the only other character that could be top 3 just everyone is too busy smoking weed and messing up CGs

 

[swordgard]

No worries redhalberd, when I come to USA, I won't be high but il be placing highest.

I'm with ally on this one, Ics above diddy. Potentially 2nd tbh if played right. I don't even think they are that bad on CPs(I think they perform better vs MK on brinstar than snake does).

 

[ShadowLink84]

I don't see IC's being anywhere near 2nd best in the game.

Hell I think as top 7 but not top 2.

 

[swordgard]

I still don't see any bad matchup for ics besides MK(55-45 imo). Snake is definitely at worst 55-45(imo 50-50 especially since snake has no good CP on them), otherwise they have no harder matchups.

 

[Marc]

Let's keep discussion focused, both Snake and Ice Climbers will get their turn soon.

 

[Praxis]

Diddy is at a disadvantage vs Snake, MK, Luigi, Peach, Wario, some argue Marth (I disagree), Falco (though I believe Dekar now believes this is 50-50) and Toon Link.

Felix and Nerd are close friends and practice primarily with each other. As a result, Felix knows the Falco matchup better than arguably any Diddy (ask DEHF, I believe they played recently), and Nerd knows the Diddy matchup much, much better than any Falco and has excellent banana control, much like a Diddy main.

Because they can both control bananas with such proficiency, they're also arguably the best doubles team in the state.

Both players now believe Falco beats Diddy.

This is also a large part of why I believe Diddy is a character that, while good, gets away with a lot based on people not knowing the matchup. When you are both grounded, Diddy changes the constraints of the game to one in which banana control is the most important skill; and the Diddy player has hundreds of hours of practice in it.

 

[Praxis]

What Marc said is true-Peach and Luigi really aren't that bad.

Snake is tough but I think if diddy figures it out its close to even. ADHD hasn't lost to a non Ally snake in ages.

Actually, I think that Peach is, in theory, a lot worse, but no Peach has the experience. I wish I could play with Felix more than once every three months, because I'd really like to get her banana ATs down.

Peach can catch items by releasing float, so she can catch bananas during cooldown from her aerials. I just don't have it in my reaction very well. Diddy essentially can never hit Peach with a banana while floating if she reacts with a float release, and groundfloating aerials into Diddy's shield is super safe.

I'd also point out that Kos-Mos has a completely spotless record against Diddy, WITHOUT using any of the float tricks I described above.

Some characters, like ROB and Meta Knight come close, but frankly diddy's dash attack, air dodge, and aerials are superior regarding handling items.

I would argue that Peach's tools could be superior. Diddy's dash attack is better than hers for picking up items, perhaps; but probably not better than a rapid groundfloat nair. And her aerials work very well for item handling. Her only issue is that she has no kill setups out of it...I think. I need to see if glide toss > Peach bomber works consistently.

 

[Marcbri]

I also play diddy a lot, (two of the top 5 diddys in europe live in spain and I play one of them quite often) and I'd say its even in most stages. Also in stupid counterpick stages like brinstar, rainbow cruise, etc, diddy wins.
Diddy's grab is amazing versus Falco, Nanas are really good with both characters, Falco can get pretty sick setups, but Diddy is on par with him.

I also don't quite agree with some other disadvantages that AZ posted ( specially TL) but I haven't experienced them that much so I won't say anything about them.

 

[Omni]

No worries redhalberd, when I come to USA, I won't be high but il be placing highest.

I'm with ally on this one, Ics above diddy. Potentially 2nd tbh if played right. I don't even think they are that bad on CPs(I think they perform better vs MK on brinstar than snake does).

IC's vs. Diddy

Performance-Wise (IC's):
- Lain, Swordgad, Atomsk? I don't think anyone else places high in their region and they're pretty much non-existent at MLG's. Those are the only 3 IC's that I can think of that actually places well and only two of those three actually main IC's. Those placings don't come anywhere near close to how well ADHD and Gnes place.

Character-Wise (IC's):
- Worst Match-ups (imo): Metaknight 55/45, Snake 55/45, Lucas (lol, but no im srs) 50/50, and ROB
- They handle a large % of the cast much like the Sheik of Melee. However, getting an IC's to a level to handle the influx of MK's is difficult thus keeps the population of IC's down at all levels of play.

Performance-Wise (Diddy):
- ADHD and Gnes are the top placers that do very well within their region. ADHD does well at nationals. Ninjalink, Felix, Dekar are some of the above average placing Diddy's that do fairly well in their area.

Character-Wise (Diddy):
- Worst Match-ups (imo): Falco. I think Diddy holds his own extremely well against the rest of the cast and Falco is his hardest match-up, but nothing more than 60/40. Most importantly he has one of the best match-ups against MK.
- Damage racking, above average recovery, great projectiles, killing potential off banana tosses, stand still defense game against non-projectile characters (banana in hand; banana in front; peanuts galore), good throw speed that sets up into banana reset. Diddy doesn't really have a glaring weakness that prevents players from picking him up compared to IC's (losing Nana = losing stock).

I still don't see any bad matchup for ics besides MK(55-45 imo). Snake is definitely at worst 55-45(imo 50-50 especially since snake has no good CP on them), otherwise they have no harder matchups.

I agree about IC's not having too many character match-up weaknesses, but I think IC's gets completely ****ed moreso than Diddy in regards to counterpicking stages. The ability to adapt to a multitude of stage designs directly influences how well a character is placed on the tiers.

With or without MLG Rules, IC's get pooped on in regards to counterpicking stages.

Let's keep discussion focused, both Snake and Ice Climbers will get their turn soon.

I think it's still focused. It's important to compare Diddy with other characters in terms of their placement amongst and/or next to each other on the tier list to validate Diddy's own placement.

Felix and Nerd are close friends and practice primarily with each other. As a result, Felix knows the Falco matchup better than arguably any Diddy (ask DEHF, I believe they played recently), and Nerd knows the Diddy matchup much, much better than any Falco and has excellent banana control, much like a Diddy main.

Because they can both control bananas with such proficiency, they're also arguably the best doubles team in the state.

Both players now believe Falco beats Diddy.

This is also a large part of why I believe Diddy is a character that, while good, gets away with a lot based on people not knowing the matchup. When you are both grounded, Diddy changes the constraints of the game to one in which banana control is the most important skill; and the Diddy player has hundreds of hours of practice in it.

It's been 3 years. The "not knowing the matchup" phrase can't keep up. It just may be that most people aren't able to adapt to the match-up. Even if you know how to have banana control and understand Diddy's weak spots actually exploiting them in matches is still difficult against a Diddy that has good banana management of their own. I guess what I'm saying is that the ignorance of character match-up knowledge clearly hinders the opposer, but the presence of character match-up knowledge does not compensate for performance from both parties. When both players understand a match-up to a certain degree then loser is simply outplayed.

Like every good MK knows the MK match-up, but knowing the match-up doesn't help when Mew2King obliterates them. Mew2King simply outplays the other MK's.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I think Diddy has a lot of matchup thats are not so comfortable (he's at slight disadvantage) but a lot of these are random characters like Peach and Luigi, characters are that are either really uncommon or heavily filtered out by other top tier characaters, to the point where diddy remains 3rd best. I agree with this notion and it's been mentioned before.

 

[Mew2King]

Diddy does not have a slight disadvantage against other matchups. Just because you can do well against WEST COAST Diddies does not show what the matchup is at the highest level. Even Gnes beat Boss when boss has experience in the matchup while Gnes does not. That's supposed to be a "hard counter". Diddy does not lose many matchups.

 

[MetalMusicMan]

Yeah... again, I really think that saying Diddy has any "bad" matchups is grossly over exaggerative. I'm sure he has some disadvantages (like anyone) but they are all manageable.

He has tools to manage just about any situation, so he really isn't ever significantly "disadvantaged".

 

[DMG]

Diddy DOES lose a few matchups, but different ones than people talk about.

Luigi is not a hard counter to Diddy. That is one of the biggest misconceptions about the character that I hear. The problem Luigi has against Diddy is approaching. Make HIM approach you and it's clearly in Diddy's favor. How is Luigi gonna get in? On the ground he is beat clearly. If he approaches from the air, his air movement speed is so low that it's easy to outmaneuver him repeatedly.

It's like when people said Luigi goes even with Snake. Maybe he can, if Snake isn't gay and approaches all the time.

Diddy IMO loses to MK, Wario, Marth, Falco, Peach, Snake, and G&W with a non LGL ruleset in place (Pit as well). By loses, I mean has 55:45 or worse matchup. If you want to make it just 6:4, then the list would be basically MK, Peach, and Pit/G&W without LGL.

What people have not exploited is Diddy's frame weaknesses concerning Bananas. It takes him a lot longer than most of you think for him to toss a banana or glide toss or be able to react after tossing a banana. Once these things are exploited, he drops down a bit.

 

[Dekar173]

Lol.

After losing to me, and learning some things I taught to Havok about playing against Diddy, DEHF now knows just about everything he needs to in the Diddy mu.

It's all about knowing what you can do/being able to do it, and though the game has been out for years now, people STILL don't know how to fluidly control items, or even everything there is to know about items in general.



I believe it kind of has something to do with Diddy mains actively trying to keep others from adapting ...

Hmm.

 

[Mew2King]

^ bunch of BULL****

Even if a few characters are better with bananas than Diddy is, Diddy will have bananas in their hands 5 times more often than the other characters will, because all he has to do is hit them away (even at like 20%) and then he can pull out 1-2 bananas.

 

[AllyKnight]

^ bunch of BULL****

Even if a few characters are better with bananas than Diddy is, Diddy will have bananas in their hands 5 times more often than the other characters will, because all he has to do is hit them away (even at like 20%) and then he can pull out 1-2 bananas.

so? diddy doesnt hve the advantage ever without bannanas dummmy you're so selfish!

 

[Pierce7d]

Eh, Diddy's movement ratio's are also kinda ridiculous. That character's ground speed/fall speed/jump height/jump rise speed/aerial mobility stats are all moderately high. Obviously better than Snakes, and perhaps better than MKs.

The character also has a ridiculously small hurtbox to the point where I must nearly perfectly time a falling Uair to hit Diddy Kong with Marth. This makes him notoriously hard to shield stab or cross-up.

His range outside of bananas is also quite good. M2k and I tested on a head to head basis, and Diddy Kong's Dtilt compares to MK's dtilt as follows (forgive me for not having the numerical frame data)

Diddy's Dtilt deals more damage
Diddy's Dtilt has more range SLIGHTLY
MK's Dtilt is a bit faster
Diddy's Dtilt has a larger hitbox
MK's Dtilt has better follow-ups if induces trip (Diddy's Dtlit has moderately good follow-ups)
Diddy can crawl, to better space Dtilt.

In head to head encounters, Diddy's Dtilt wins, though MK's is probably a bit better overall, and he has the ftilt as well. Can a Diddy Main tell me the Frame Data on his Dtilt?

Banana Toss hits on like Frame 6-7 (I believe it's 6 at the very soonest, but 7 is more practical)

Also, I'm siding with the side that says regardless of how good the opponent's banana control is, Diddy is going to be better with bananas. His moveset is specifically designed to deal with bananas. Notice, even in the air at neutral, his animation is that from DKC, where one hand is raised, so that he can catch a banana slightly higher than his actual hurtbox, just to give him a larger window to catch. His Fair has devestatingly huge catch range, and his DA as amazing duration for catching bananas.

I think, that item control in general needs more research. I'll bring it up in the Smash Lab.

I think that once everyone learns to control items, Diddy will be similar to Marth in that he doesn't destroy many characters, but still maintains favorable MUs through most of the cast.

Falco beats Diddy. Trust me. It's close though. No greater than 6-4 Falco.

 

[CT Chia]

imo Diddy is a very solid character, but is incredibly overrated. His recovery can be gimped much easier than most characters, and his main component of offense, his bananas, can be caught easily by his opponent and used against him.

Edit: Also of note is the time and space needed to spawn the bananas for him to control. The fact that he throws them out and doesn't auto spawn them in his hand is definitely something to note.

 

[T-block]

Diddy's f-tilt hits on frame 4 and has much higher duration than MK's, obviously. MK's is frame 3 iirc?

 

[AlphaZealot]

Diddy does not have a slight disadvantage against other matchups. Just because you can do well against WEST COAST Diddies does not show what the matchup is at the highest level. Even Gnes beat Boss when boss has experience in the matchup while Gnes does not. That's supposed to be a "hard counter". Diddy does not lose many matchups.[

The best MD/VA Diddy is Esoj followed by like, Deez. Boss does not have experience. Neither does Big Lou (best Southeast Diddy is GDX). It is even funnier that you brought up Gnes, cause if memory serves he could never (nor could Flip) manage to beat Kos Mos' Peach.

Diddy's Dtilt deals more damage
Diddy's Dtilt has more range SLIGHTLY
MK's Dtilt is a bit faster

That last part makes the first two parts pointless. Diddy doesn't win D-tilt contests with MK cause MK will almost always poke him out first. So this:

In head to head encounters, Diddy's Dtilt wins, though MK's is probably a bit better overall, and he has the ftilt as well. Can a Diddy Main tell me the Frame Data on his Dtilt?

Is not actually true.

I believe it kind of has something to do with Diddy mains actively trying to keep others from adapting ...

This is actually true. I'm not the only Diddy who doesn't do friendlies at tournaments vs people I know could possibly beat me/when I do play friendlies I'll try to play as fast and recklessly as possible so the opponent wins and thinks they know the MU.

What people have not exploited is Diddy's frame weaknesses concerning Bananas. It takes him a lot longer than most of you think for him to toss a banana or glide toss or be able to react after tossing a banana. Once these things are exploited, he drops down a bit.

Sorta true. Mostly not. Diddy will just adapt by glide tossing back and throwing at smarter times if he sees that his glide toss forward approaches are getting punished. It's an easy fix most Diddy's have done a hundred times. Glide tossing back means the opponent has to deal with the nana while you are at a safe distance, but still close enough that if the nana causes a trip you can follow up. It is basically unpunishable unless the opponent manages to like shield-catch-instant-throw the banana, but even then Diddy can just recatch it with ease. In other words what you are saying should happen in the future has already happened in the past, but people simply haven't noticed cause the Diddy's already know how to adapt when their forward glide tosses get punished.

I agree with your match up's except for GW (plus add Luigi), Diddy beats GW all you gotta do is camp (just like Luigi, except Luigi has a projectile and doesn't eat 30-40% damage from a single nana trip and his aerials up close are almost unpunishable if spaced correctly). Everything GW does is punishable on block, his best option is usually spacing a bair really well and hoping for a shield stab/Diddy to let go of shield early. Any Diddy with exp in the MU though will have a nana in hand and will OoS glidetoss punish every aerial GW has. There are one or two stages though where GW excels, these aside though the MU is bad for GW.

Even if a few characters are better with bananas than Diddy is, Diddy will have bananas in their hands 5 times more often than the other characters will, because all he has to do is hit them away (even at like 20%) and then he can pull out 1-2 bananas.

100% agree. No character is as good with Diddy with bananas and Diddy has the advantage of know when and where to spawn them.

imo Diddy is a very solid character, but is incredibly overrated. His recovery can be gimped much easier than most characters, and his main component of offense, his bananas, can be caught easily by his opponent and used against him.

He is overrated, very true. His recovery though is better then most of the castes (who has a better recovery? MK, Pikachu, ROB, Pit, maybe Wario, maybe GW, prob 1 or 2 others but you get the point, not many are distinctively better then Diddys). Diddy's recovery is good if the Diddy is recovering smartly. It is just really hard sometimes to recognize what kind of recovery to use, especially in MUs you have little experience in (this was a big problem for me vs ROB for a long time until I got exp). More or less Diddy's refreshable side-B will allow him to save his jump in most situations and also works as an attack or a grab. Typically it is all you need to return to the edge safely, and in the worse scenario's you still have your jump, plus your Up-B charge from far away is very hard to guard against for most characters since you have to guess if Diddy is going to the edge or to the stage (and intercepting the recovery is very difficult for any character not named MK-though ROB Bair is pretty good).

 

[Praxis]

Diddy DOES lose a few matchups, but different ones than people talk about.

Luigi is not a hard counter to Diddy. That is one of the biggest misconceptions about the character that I hear. The problem Luigi has against Diddy is approaching. Make HIM approach you and it's clearly in Diddy's favor. How is Luigi gonna get in? On the ground he is beat clearly. If he approaches from the air, his air movement speed is so low that it's easy to outmaneuver him repeatedly.

It's like when people said Luigi goes even with Snake. Maybe he can, if Snake isn't gay and approaches all the time.

Diddy IMO loses to MK, Wario, Marth, Falco, Peach, Snake, and G&W with a non LGL ruleset in place (Pit as well). By loses, I mean has 55:45 or worse matchup. If you want to make it just 6:4, then the list would be basically MK, Peach, and Pit/G&W without LGL.

What people have not exploited is Diddy's frame weaknesses concerning Bananas. It takes him a lot longer than most of you think for him to toss a banana or glide toss or be able to react after tossing a banana. Once these things are exploited, he drops down a bit.

I agree with everything you say here except G&W. I've got quite a bit of experience with Luigi, and he has a very big issue with actually approaching. He just requires a logic change on the part of the Diddy player.

I don't think G&W has an advantage on Diddy. I don't think they're even, well, even. G&W does have good item control, but his moves have a lot of holes that are easy to get banana hits on, and his roll is so terribly easy to follow up with banana hits...

 

[Omni]

That last part makes the first two parts pointless. Diddy doesn't win D-tilt contests with MK cause MK will almost always poke him out first. So this:.

i mean its a bit pointless if we're talking MK vs. Diddy strictly. not so pointless if we're talking Diddy vs. Anyone Else.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

This is actually true. I'm not the only Diddy who doesn't do friendlies at tournaments vs people I know could possibly beat me/when I do play friendlies I'll try to play as fast and recklessly as possible so the opponent wins and thinks they know the MU.

LOL, I do the same thing!!! Haha..it's great.

 

[OverLade]

Diddy is extremely overrated.

You can catch fricken bananas. Even if you just shield them any character that outranges Diddy has a huge advantage from shield. Aggro MK/Snake **** Diddy as long as he isn't near bananas.

 

[Espy Rose]

The best MD/VA Diddy is Esoj followed by like, Deez. Boss does not have experience. Neither does Big Lou (best Southeast Diddy is GDX). It is even funnier that you brought up Gnes, cause if memory serves he could never (nor could Flip) manage to beat Kos Mos' Peach.

I was actually going to bring this up too. Never once did I see him beat Kos Mos.

This is actually true. I'm not the only Diddy who doesn't do friendlies at tournaments vs people I know could possibly beat me/when I do play friendlies I'll try to play as fast and recklessly as possible so the opponent wins and thinks they know the MU.

When I see that a group of people are intentionally masking their character, it tells me that there's a bunch of inherent flaws that they don't want other mains to know about.

I still think he's overrated because of that.