Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[Adapt]

Here's a few thoughts I came up with after playing computers for a few hours.

- Sing = broken against computers :D I'm not sure how well it does against human players though.
- ROB's side-B into aerial seems maybe a bit too good because of how much space it covers in so little time
- Bowser's super armor seems to be too good as well, I find that it's really hard to get a hit in, especially with characters like Ike
- Link's recovery: Amazing. He's really good now that he can get back to the stage. My second favorite to play behind ZSS
- I'm not sure I like MK's U-smash. I see what you're trying to do, but I found it could be DIed to prevent a decent chain. I kept wishing for his old sliding u-smash
- ZSS's D-smash seems a little small now with the increased range and speed of many attacks. It's really hard to hit with. I love her mobility though, and she can get some excellent combos
- It's not major, but you've ruined a popular way to DACUS. Instead I end up DACDSing lol (I DACUS in vBrawl by hitting down-C>up+A)

 

[SuperFudgeChoco]

IS there an IRC I can look for people to play a few games in?

 

[Xyless]

Here's a few thoughts I came up with after playing computers for a few hours.

- Bowser's super armor seems to be too good as well, I find that it's really hard to get a hit in, especially with characters like Ike

A response I had regarding Bowser and his super armor on the main Brawl- forums (initial discussion was about Diddy not being able to handle Bowser):

Protip for Diddy vs Bowser: don't use bananas. Plenty of his attacks are strong enough to knock Bowser around. Protip for Fox vs Bowser: pew pew, smash, and bair. Also grabs.

Like BPC said, Bowser is severely overrated by people who haven't played the game long enough to understand it, same as Zelda. Bowser's extreme resistance to flinching is because in every other game, he is major combo bait, and can't really combo himself. So Bowser is the combo counterer, in a way. He shuts down a lot of options that, in every other game, he himself would've been 100% helpless to combat.

Also, there are characters that counter Bowser's Heavy Armor and abuse it. For example, Lucas' PK Fire has extra hitboxes that rarely hit other people because the initial fire knocks them too far away. However, with Bowser, the initial hit's damage is just below the Heavy Armor threshold, so he gets hit with the entirety of the PK Fire, doing around 30 damage.

An example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa5xdSNwzWc

Obviously, I was playing that match against my friend to disprove the concept that Bowser's Heavy Armor is an end-all block for every character, so I played far campier than I normally would with Lucas. Point is, Bowser is only broken if you play against him how HE wants you to.

Both Bowser and Zelda are the "you have to adapt to these character's playstyles" characters, moreso than the other characters. Zelda didn't get MAJOR buffs, since her extended hitboxes already highlighted her "I'M MAGICAL TEEHEE" concept that were shown off with her smashes in normal Brawl and Melee, and it was really all she needed.

Also, someone asked why DK/DDD didn't get heavy armor, and I responded that they don't need it as much, because they are fast enough and have enough range that they can keep up with everyone else and combo well, whereas Bowser is both slow and...has small arms.

 

[[TSON]]

IS there an IRC I can look for people to play a few games in?

Gamesurge #BrawlMinus

It's currently dead so I'd like more people in there :V

 

[DunnoBro]

You have a point.
I really would of liked to see mk's cape actually usable. it still sucks terrible.

this IS just a beta though, i highly doubt they will leave them as is.
To be honest it's probably going to be hard trying to break these already broken characters. @_@

With low tiers and those with obvious flaws, it was easy to say "Gee wouldn't it be nice if..."
But there never was that for some chars.

 

[Crystalorbie]

I'll repost my last two posts because the page changed... my apologies as combined it seems a little long...

I completely misworded, my bad.

Anyways, I think I mean to say that the main change you made was to Side-b, the other moves got changes here and there, but clearly it was the move you really wanted to make happen.

the requiring the second jump, it's just a small annoyance of mine, I mean the jump gains very little height as it is, but you have to waste time using it when you were already positioned to float at the perfect height to get to someone falling offstage... (I guess thats a very situational deal, so feel free to ignore it, as the only suggestion I have to fix it would be take away the jump once side-b is used, and I don't think anyone really wants that)

As for F-tilt... well, to be honest, whenever one of us chose peach, we made sure that person wasn't on the ground much, and instead spending most of the time trying to get around Bowser's super armor and ganondorf's dash attack super armor... (I'm not sure if his dash attack is super armor, intangibility, or just insane priority, but we've never been able to damage him during it, maybe our bad luck) I guess I could play around with that as well.

I don't recommend making her kill moves stronger, as being slightly quicker with wind ups and less endlag or something would be a much better choice for such things, in my opinion.

Perhaps extending the range of some moves, like parasol when used on the ground have a sort of sweep in front of it to draw people normally just out of it into it. (I wanna say an uppercut motion of the parasol before launching peach skywards, if possible...) Her grab could also have a very slight range extension, I mean I've missed grabbing bowser while practically being inside of him before, though it may have been a glitch... (no, bowser was not moving, I'm fairly certain I hadn't passed through him, and he was not spot dodging)




I'd forgotten about that, thank you silence.

I guess now I have three things to play with tomorrow. (tonight is done for us, the others were dragged off to D'n'D by the promise of a new DM or something...)

Edit: I believe a personal complaint of my buddies (not me, as I mostly use characters with projectiles of some kind) is MK's "hold A to stall" move. None of them could find a way to at least stop the attack, let alone attack MK through it. It took Jigglypuff's extended range Sing move to finally get him to stop. They told me to mention this just before leaving...

Edit2@powerhouse: They mentioned somewhere (either the original closed topic here or on the Brawl minus forums) that they didn't want vbrawl characters to go head to head with minus characters, I believe that was when they found Falco and someone else do exactly that with mere increased hitstun, possibly with some of the other changes as well.

It's why I can't see them being ok with having a considerable amount of a character's moves being unchanged and yet go head to head with the rest of minus's cast.

My apologies for all the little edits, but I just wanted to point out something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10HBg7apG9Q&NR=1 @ 1:27

Peach grabs and throws Lucas off the right side of the stage, and even with lucas over 100% in damage, he still lived.

What I want to point out is that (I think) Xyless said the throw would have "increased" knockback growth, which I take is either big, but not Melee big, or Huge, bigger than melee, and it looked like barely better than vBrawl knockback. I don't know if he changed his mind or whatnot, just thought to point it out...

 

[Jam Stunna]

So I tried using this with the kiddie installer that comes with Brawl +. It loaded and everything, but the game would freeze at the stage select screen. So I switched stage select to random, and the game works fine since I skip the stage select screen.

Luigi is awesome, and my wife raaaaaaaped me with Bowser. Ike isn't as great as I thought he's be.

Speaking of Ike, was it decided that he wouldn't have his helicopter uair? I also noticed that Falco doesn't have the triple laser anymore.

 

[[TSON]]

The stage select froze for you? o.O? How are you loading this?

Also Ike does have helicopter uair, you need to mash A after uairing. Falco's triple laser is still there as well, but is overlapped over each other so that you can duck under them.

 

[kr3wman]

This is really fun.

All I have to say. Need some people to play with.

 

[Jam Stunna]

The stage select froze for you? o.O? How are you loading this?

Also Ike does have helicopter uair, you need to mash A after uairing. Falco's triple laser is still there as well, but is overlapped over each other so that you can duck under them.

Ah, okay.

I 'm loading it using the Brawl + installer that doesn't require the homebrew channel. I just boot Gecko directly from the stage builder option in vBrawl.

Like I said, it works fine now that I've put stage select to random. I'll mess around with it tomorrow to see if I can nail something down.

 

[Xyless]

My apologies for all the little edits, but I just wanted to point out something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10HBg7apG9Q&NR=1 @ 1:27

Peach grabs and throws Lucas off the right side of the stage, and even with lucas over 100% in damage, he still lived.

What I want to point out is that (I think) Xyless said the throw would have "increased" knockback growth, which I take is either big, but not Melee big, or Huge, bigger than melee, and it looked like barely better than vBrawl knockback. I don't know if he changed his mind or whatnot, just thought to point it out...

That's a pretty old video. I increased her fthrow and ftilt kb on the 19th. That throw would've killed from there around 90 now, I believe.

 

[En1gmaSPY]

I main Link,and i must say you guys did an incredible job.I was shutting down approaches with arrows and boomerang.Also the bombs.Ohhh lawdy lawd lawd them bombs are gooooooooooood.And...what's this?....oh sweet jesus,i can actually recover now?! YESZ!


Seriously,don't change ANY of Link's projectiles(unless you guys wanna make em more broken)because i think they are just perfect.Specially the bombs.

 

[DunnoBro]

Anyone else having desynch problems with wifi? :/

 

[Remzi]

this is crazy fun haha.

annoying how you cant take a player out if ther controller is plugged in though...

 

[The Sex Puma]

I just tried to load this with usb loader and it didn't even start up.. <.<

 

[[TSON]]

Use one that supports over 256 lines like GX

 

[Crystalorbie]

Ah, I wasn't aware it had changed from that date, you had the side-b cancelable in that video, so I wasn't quite sure.

That said, I believe what I intended to say to powerhouse about his post on page... 8? still stands.

"They mentioned somewhere (either the original closed topic here or on the Brawl minus forums) that they didn't want vbrawl characters to go head to head with minus characters, I believe that was when they found Falco and someone else do exactly that with mere increased hitstun, possibly with some of the other changes as well.

It's why I can't see them being ok with having a considerable amount of a character's moves being unchanged and yet go head to head with the rest of minus's cast."

 

[Gaddswell]

Yay, it's out! Downloading now and giving it a try!

 

[rezen1337]

Sorry if I missed anything on the past few pages or so, but is Fox supposed to have a directional Air Dodge?

I found this bit particularly peculiar.

 

[Xyless]

Sorry if I missed anything on the past few pages or so, but is Fox supposed to have a directional Air Dodge?

I found this bit particularly peculiar.

He has a hybrid air dodge: if you input a direction with the air dodge, he has melee airdodge (movement, then can't do anything), and if you don't input a direction, he just does Brawl airdodge.

 

[GHNeko]

LOL THAT'S GENIUS hahahahahaha

 

[rezen1337]

Ahh, I see. However, why is this only implemented for Fox (that I know of, at least )?

 

[Crystalorbie]

Ah, it just doesn't feel right with so many posts so quick...

But I felt I needed to ask, what compelled the person who did Wolf to stop all upward momentum (and I assume most momentum overall) when he uses neutral-b in the air?

I find it annoying that I drop a ways below where I intended to be when the laser blob finally gets shot out, (laser blob being just what I call it...) not to mention it just doesn't flow well with anything I can think of, while keeping upwards momentum allows one to more easily place the blob where you want it, and can probably follow it up with something much better than normal... (not that I think it should go back to vBrawl, in fact I think it should shoot out a laser fist with little damage and knockback, but ridiculously high knockback growth)

Other than that... side-b on Wolf, if you follow with an aerial right after the move, you avoid special fall but lose your midair jump (can still follow with up-b) but if you don't, you go into special fall? I just wanted to ask if that was intentional or not, and if so, then why?. (the not doing aerial->special fall)

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

umm why does the CSS have CSPs of textures I don't have? lolol may want to fix it >.>

Redownload and it'll fix that.

If you get hit, you get hit over and over and over.
If you sidestep/roll it, you get hit.
If you block it, you get spammed until you get shield stabbed or jump away.
If you jump away, you get spammed until you run out of room or find a floating platform.

Tried "Jump Towards" and "attempt to punish"? Also, if you get hit, you can usually avoid getting hit by another with good DI.

Thoughts:

Rob is too fun! That down air just makes the whole character. I mean, the lasers help too.

Try SideB->Dair. It gives you sideB->ground move, which is often even sicker. ROB is a monster. I friggin' love him.

Fox can wavedash! Awesome! But... he does a spot dodge at the end of the wavedash every time I did it, is this intentional or am I buffering spot dodges?

You're probably buffering spotdodge.

Toon Link's arrows have this glitch where they stay in place, but not necessarily on a platform. Like Smashville's moving one. Stick an arrow on it, and the platform slides away from the arrow.


(that arrow isn't moving in air; it's stuck there)


That said, fun stuff. I'll take it to the dorm lounges and have "playtesting" sessions this week.

Known, probably gonna stay.

Nice. Do the arrows not disappear, ever? Because I might have to play Toon Link on Rainbow Cruise for extra fun.

They disappear after a while (a long time) and you can neutralize them by powershielding, but the trick is that if you fire one while four are out (I think it's 4) that the oldest one vanishes due to article limit.

I don't like the CSS, is there a way to manually take it off?

I think you remove/replace common5 and sc_selcharacter.

My opponents keep suciding on my side and i keep suiciding on theirs.

This happened a while ago with some textures and etc. What am i doing wrong?

I use the double gct method and usb loader.

You desynched. You have to make sure both people are running the same codes.

Ok, so me and my buddies played it the last couple hours or so.

And its great.

But in particular, Bowser's super armor status is crippling to many characters, especially those that rely on many little hits to rack up damage, or those that just plain don't do much damage with most attacks...

We're probably going to be buffing the others to fix this if it's necessary. :V Try grabbing, try unconventional attacks... it's still the biggest hurtbox in the game and relatively slow. Just not quite as meaty.

Basically, whoever played bowser, unless miraculously spiked into the ground long enough to be warlock punched (ugh...) would win the match because of it, and only one of us is normally good as bowser.

Ganon actually counters bowser pretty hard. So do some of the other heavies. But once you get used to bowser, he really isn't that bad. Sure, he's good (really good), but it's very possible to get around him.

Wolf has a wierd problem with his forward smash. Most easily noticable in stages like Lylat Cruise, in which if his smash hits just right, it does very little damage and sends opponents so far before the hitstun allows any action that they are basically dead. Strange enough, Wolf, if spamming the jump button, followed by side-b, airial (fair for quickest chance) then up-b can make it back, but no one else has stood a chance that we've seen. By the by, the dead character's current damage has nothing to do with this, as the attack is a 1hko if pulled off, even at 0% before it hits.

What the hell? Never heard of this... Will check it out. Thanks for the feedback.

IS there an IRC I can look for people to play a few games in?

There's http://www.gamesurge.net/chat/brawlminus or www.brawlminus.com/chat.php or if you have skype, a big skype chat I should really move to the IRC.

You have a point.
I really would of liked to see mk's cape actually usable. it still sucks terrible.

this IS just a beta though, i highly doubt they will leave them as is.
To be honest it's probably going to be hard trying to break these already broken characters. @_@

With low tiers and those with obvious flaws, it was easy to say "Gee wouldn't it be nice if..."
But there never was that for some chars.

The cape sometimes has some kind of superrange. I don't really know what I did to it tbh.

Ah, okay.

I 'm loading it using the Brawl + installer that doesn't require the homebrew channel. I just boot Gecko directly from the stage builder option in vBrawl.

Like I said, it works fine now that I've put stage select to random. I'll mess around with it tomorrow to see if I can nail something down.

That's stack smash. You need the "Disable Custom Stages" code in the GCT, otherwise stack smash freezes on the SSS.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mxnnnzljo4y/RSBE01SS.gct

Use that. Just rename it to RSBE01 and replace the GCT in codes with it, then Stack Smash should work fine.

Ahh, I see. However, why is this only implemented for Fox (that I know of, at least )?

Fox gets it because he's the melee***. We took the most broken aspects of 64 and melee fox (to the best of our abilities) and made Brawl- fox.

LOL THAT'S GENIUS hahahahahaha

Inorite?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

whoops, double post

 

[Crystalorbie]

I feel the need to clarify about Wolf's Forward Smash.

The knockback isn't usually deadly on it's own, as it's like being hit with a star rod without so much damage. The hitstun that prevents you from doing anything for so long that combos with the knockback is what makes it so deadly.

Basically, when Zelda can die in one hit from it, from the center of Lylat Cruise (tilted so the direction zelda flew was lower than the center) its a little overbroken in my opinion.

 

[Gaddswell]

Not sure if this has been brought up, but if you have multiple controllers plugged into the Wii and you're not using them all, you have to unplug the extras. Same with Wiimotes. There's no way to make a player inactive.

 

[Zwarm]

To everyone complaining about Bowser's heavy armor

1. Pick Lucas
2. Spam PK Fire
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

But seriously. 3 PK fires from Lucas does like, around 93% IIRC.

I'll update my build when I wake up, I can't wait to start playing ROB- again. =D

 

[Yoshara]

I setup a side tourney with the beta today. It got 8 people to join, mainley because it was set up at 11:30 PM after everything was clearing out. All I can say is that I first thought I was going to use Sonic and pull off awesome combos on everything (which I did), but after trying Wolf in the tourney for fun, I found out that he is too good. I eventually went on to win grand finals after learning that Wolf's juggle combo's, and set ups into juggle combos are just awesome (Up angled F-Smash -> f-air -> whatever).

P.S. His side-b is also amazing.

 

[Battletanx_Commander]

Things we need now:
-PAL/NTSC-J port
-Snapshot method for USB loaders
-Smash Stack would be pimp
-Installer would also be pimp

All you need for Smash Stack to work with Brawl- is the boot.elf, the stage file, and the disable custom stages code on. :V

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I feel the need to clarify about Wolf's Forward Smash.

The knockback isn't usually deadly on it's own, as it's like being hit with a star rod without so much damage. The hitstun that prevents you from doing anything for so long that combos with the knockback is what makes it so deadly.

Basically, when Zelda can die in one hit from it, from the center of Lylat Cruise (tilted so the direction zelda flew was lower than the center) its a little overbroken in my opinion.

Hmm... I'll take a look at this.

Not sure if this has been brought up, but if you have multiple controllers plugged into the Wii and you're not using them all, you have to unplug the extras. Same with Wiimotes. There's no way to make a player inactive.

This is a problem with the CSS AFAIK. It will be looked into.

To everyone complaining about Bowser's heavy armor

1. Pick Lucas
2. Spam PK Fire
3. ???
4. PROFIT!

But seriously. 3 PK fires from Lucas does like, around 93% IIRC.

I'll update my build when I wake up, I can't wait to start playing ROB- again. =D

YEAAAAAAAAAAHHH

ROB kicks ***.

In general, there are a couple chars that have absolutely no trouble with bowser. ROB, Ganon, Lucas... there's gotta be more.

I setup a side tourney with the beta today. It got 8 people to join, mainley because it was set up at 11:30 PM after everything was clearing out. All I can say is that I first thought I was going to use Sonic and pull off awesome combos on everything (which I did), but after trying Wolf in the tourney for fun, I found out that he is too good. I eventually went on to win grand finals after learning that Wolf's juggle combo's, and set ups into juggle combos are just awesome (Up angled F-Smash -> f-air -> whatever).

P.S. His side-b is also amazing.

Wolf is hilarious. Too good? I doubt it...

All you need for Smash Stack to work with Brawl- is the boot.elf, the stage file, and the disable custom stages code on. :V

I linked to the GCT for SS in the OP.

 

[NAMQ_DrunkeNFeasT]

I need to have word in here... who worked on pit... I hate to yell at this person... this person needs... a word that will describe him perfectly...

DUDE YOU KNOW ART!!!

man that Up arrow thing is such a nice thing danm, idk how did you work on this but man... I... love this pit... going to learn to use pit... I'm a pit noob since Vbrawl or even B+, but... that arrow thingy is just beautiful

man... who ever worked on pit needs respect... he knows what is arts and he made something beautiful for pit

 

[Mr.Chuy]

I finally got the play this *after what 5 hours after downloading* and i must say i f***ing love this!
The only things i think can be improved on have already said but all and all this is awesome
However a suggestion try adding the disable custom stages code on so people don't go deaf if you know what i mean

 

[Starkiller95]

Kudos to everyone who worked on this, it's great. Captain Falcon is now officially the best character.

I need to have word in here... who worked on pit... I hate to yell at this person... this person needs... a word that will describe him perfectly...

DUDE YOU KNOW ART!!!

man that Up arrow thing is such a nice thing danm, idk how did you work on this but man... I... love this pit... going to learn to use pit... I'm a pit noob since Vbrawl or even B+, but... that arrow thingy is just beautiful

man... who ever worked on pit needs respect... he knows what is arts and he made something beautiful for pit

What do you mean, up arrow? Couldn't he aim up before? Sorry if I'm sounding stupid, I only used Pit in one brawl as I was testing the characters, I didn't notice much change.

 

[The Sex Puma]

Use one that supports over 256 lines like GX

Yo, even GX says it supports over 256 lines and will produce unexpected results. i.e. error

 

[Revven]

I'd then recommend looking for another USB Loader, possibly Neo Gamma.

 

[ShermantheTank]

Congrats and thank you to everyone who put in such hard work on this! Testing the game out has been a blast, and I'm glad to have been a part of something that's so much fun.

In general, there are a couple chars that have absolutely no trouble with bowser. ROB, Ganon, Lucas... there's gotta be more.

Jiggs.

 

[Jam Stunna]

That's stack smash. You need the "Disable Custom Stages" code in the GCT, otherwise stack smash freezes on the SSS.
http://www.mediafire.com/file/mxnnnzljo4y/RSBE01SS.gct

Use that. Just rename it to RSBE01 and replace the GCT in codes with it, then Stack Smash should work fine.

It works great now. Thanks!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I finally got the play this *after what 5 hours after downloading* and i must say i f***ing love this!
The only things i think can be improved on have already said but all and all this is awesome
However a suggestion try adding the disable custom stages code on so people don't go deaf if you know what i mean

There's a GCT with that code in the OP of the thread. Take a look, it should work...

Jiggs.

Ah yes. I can imagine she would give Bowser a ton of problems. WOP against him is lethal if it goes through his armor.

Kudos to everyone who worked on this, it's great. Captain Falcon is now officially the best character.


What do you mean, up arrow? Couldn't he aim up before? Sorry if I'm sounding stupid, I only used Pit in one brawl as I was testing the characters, I didn't notice much change.

If you shoot the arrow up, it looks different... And CF is DEFINITELY not top tier.

I need to have word in here... who worked on pit... I hate to yell at this person... this person needs... a word that will describe him perfectly...

DUDE YOU KNOW ART!!!

man that Up arrow thing is such a nice thing danm, idk how did you work on this but man... I... love this pit... going to learn to use pit... I'm a pit noob since Vbrawl or even B+, but... that arrow thingy is just beautiful

man... who ever worked on pit needs respect... he knows what is arts and he made something beautiful for pit

That would be either StandardToaster or Kirk or Blind. Not sure on pit TBH.

 

[The Sex Puma]

I tried to load it on NeoGamma then it told me I was stupid.