Doubles and You, a Comprehensive Guide to 2v2s

[Jon Farron]

wow this will help MAJORLY.

I'm more of a carry/dps depending on who im playing with as a team mate. if im with a really good teamate im dps/stock tank.

 

[Dekar173]

Well, the only actual Wario I've ever played in doubles was PX' and he may have been having an off day or something, but I didn't feel overwhelmed by Wario's vast amount of amazing options.

As has already been stated, everything's to be taken with a grain of salt, it's more here so people know more or less what their character's niche(s) are going to be

Also, Diddy ***** teams, or Lain and I would have done a lot worse at pound lol.

 

[PhantomX]

Dekar, as a team we only played well in that set for the like... the last part of the last game... which was absolute ****, lol.

It was more about us not having synergy than MK or Wario being bad at doubles.

 

[Dekar173]

No, Dojo went beastmode after you saved his first stock (with a god**** footstool) from an SD in like game 2 or something.

Also, you got really down on yourself that tourney and shouldn't have, you're good =P

 

[PhantomX]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTy8jbvhvzc

3 kills and I set up the gimp on your second stock, then ran with your banana on all of your last stock without you being able to do anything about it b/c I'm Wario and my partner is MK, who Diddy can't beat with one banana, and then I get the last gimp. Could've ended it sooner off his throw but I mistimed the fart and for whatever reason Dojo kept refusing to force ground releases.

This doesn't take into account the damage I did throughout, of course.

You're remembering the earlier rounds, where we didn't play well and where I had to play stock tank.

 

[Dekar173]

Our overall momentum was entirely lost the instant you footstooled Dojo to save him from an SD, if you'd watch the whole set you'd realize this!

 

[PhantomX]

Lol, HARD JOHNS.

And I know I'm good, I just felt bad b/c I'd placed out of the money with two great players in consecutive tournaments.

But yeah, Wario *****, he footstools MKs to save them which gives free wins.

 

[smashkng]

This thread should update more. I can't think Diddy have 8 as a tank. He is pretty light and he gets gimped quite easily.

 

[Tarmogoyf]

Except he is really hard to hit when he is moving backwards with a projectile coming at you.

 

[Kith]

Please continue to update this thread. It is amazing.
Edit: Don't forget to take into account Ivysaur's bulletseed as an incredible DPS move. I know it may not be important to a lot of people, but as a PT main, I know it's really important to talk about the different strengths and weaknesses of your Pokemon with your teammate. I wonder who the best teammate for PT would be. Someone who'd be able to adapt and change their role, depending on the Pokemon that's out....and don't say MK. I won't sink to that level, regardless of how perfect it would be :-P. I think it's pretty interesting.

 

[deepseadiva]

How do two Pokemon Trainers do?

Does Squirtle + Ivysaur work?

 

[Kith]

Lol I've never seriously teamed with another Pokemon Trainer, but it must be the most complicated team dynamic ever. It's already the most complicated Ditto match to analyze XD

 

[Dekar173]

Updated with GnW, I'd like to quote Zac, but I also feel he should just make his own thread in the GnW board and go even more in-depth XD

Help with ZSS commentary- I don't play ZSS, nor do I play anyone who does. I like the character, she's definitely got plenty of potential/gimmicks/random interesting spacing techniques and fluid motion in her playstyle, but I just can't seem to get my head around exactly how ZSS should be played in doubles, aside from with GnW as a partner ;P

 

[UTDZac]

You mean like this?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=260752

=P

 

[bmaster77]

nice guide keep up the good work!

 

[MJG]

Wow really nice guide.

Lets take a look at Toon Link in doubles:

Carry: Toon Link has the capability to keep his opponents away for awhile during a 2v1 situations. His bombs and quick aerial movement help make this possible. He still can make it back on stage fairly easily (unless one opponent is on the ledge and the other opponent is MK). Only the most amazing team combinations (5 or 6 come to mind) will shut down toonlinks recovery options when it comes to a 2v1 situation. Just like in singles though, being patient and grabbing toonlink would be the best option to seal the deal. TL can out-camp a good portion of the cast in a 1v1 situations.

Stock Tank:
When it comes to holding a stock, toonlink definitely has the tools to make this possible. His weight is the only issue when it comes to holding a stock (will input later if something comes to mind). Even though projectile usage should be limited in 2v2s, they are still good for racking up damage and for drawing an opponent away from your teammate/towards the ledge). Something to note: He plays exceptionally well near the ledge. He shouldn't be out near the ledge for too long though.

Punisher:
I agree with the fact that toonlink lacks the ability to punish extremely well. He will need a grab set up most of the time in order to land the kill move. I team with an olimar and the match usually with him having 5 kills and me, as toonlink, having 1 kill (assuming we win).

DPS:
Other than toonlinks spamming and camping abilities, he is really good when it comes to racking up damage quickly. His problem is the lack of kill moves that he has and this is easily taken care of with a good punisher (As stated in the OP). I team with an olimar and our opponent ends up getting knocked off the map under 100 (Sometimes at 80%) because of a fresh, Purple Up Smash from olimar.

No gimmicks?

Yes. Sadly, toonlink has no true gimmicks in 2v2 (Down throw with characters like DDD>Spike, but its still situational). However, he does have the tools to throw his opponents off, to be a distraction for the opponent while your teammate waits for an opportunity to land a kill move, and toonlink can save his teammate off stage (especially bombs). He works well with people who have a strong ground game because he excels extremely well in the air due to his mobility and the quickness of his aerials. Toonlink can rack up damage all day without an issue, but his lack of kill moves is his main issue. This shouldn't be an issue as long as toonlink teams with someone with good kill moves. Toonlink absolutely NEEDS a teammate who can kill to be useful in doubles.

I will add more if anything comes to mind.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Exactly what MJG said. Really, he got that perfectly.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Toon Link doesn't need a KOing partner to win.

He can team up with Samus, and the two of them can throw so many projectiles/Zairs at the opponents that they commit suicide due to pure despair!

 

[Garnet]

Love the guide but I would argue Sonic being a much better punisher and DPS.

As a carry Sonic is lacking due to his killing potential being awfully low. In a 2v1 situation, however, he excels more than other characters. Even though he's hurting for a projectile, his spindash is an excellent option against two people. Comboing into a footstool and any aerial, he can rack up damage using spin dash somewhat safely even when facing two people. I have experienced that killing setups work twice as easier in 2v1 since it's unexpected and most people try to maul you instead of shielding an unexpected attack. When getting comboed(as long as it is escapable) Sonic's spring will always get him almost safely away as well as gimp characters with poor recovery. Yea, he's not so good at carrying.

As a stock tank Sonic performs well because of his excellent recovery and ability to just get the he|| away. Medium weight and nice momentum cancelling options(fair>spin dash) allow him to stay alive for a good amount of time. Not much to add but he is a nice stock tank.

As a punisher Sonic can annoy the opponent very well.(most people know he does that nicely in 1v1's as well) His speed is obviously his biggest thumbs up. With it he can help his teammate out of a bind finer than anyone else.(probably) Spin dash is cancellable for mindgaming your opponent into a free grab and combo with aid from your teammate. Kill setups and gimping give sonic an exceptable way to land KO's and when he's not gimping his opponent he's passing out damage to his ally's opponent. Straightforward kill power is low but that's not the only way you score KO's. Sonic is an ok punisher, not bad.

As a DPS Sonic shines. He has nice combo-ability through his grabs and spin dash therefore delivering the damage. Spin dash racks up damage fast though comboing into aerials and it's very easily controlled so it doesn't come in contact with your ally. No projectile but that doesn't mean Sonic isn't a great DPS.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

My brother and I were looking at this, and we came to the conclusion of him maining R.O.B as our stock tank, and I would main Zelda / Sheik. So we have a dps, punisher, and tank. Comments?

 

[milesg2g]

Why couldn't i find this thread a long time ago? lol

 

[lordhelmet]

I really like this guide, a lot.

But I think you're underestimating Falcon's defensive support options.

Ground speed? 10Checks. Air mobility? Check. Fast aerials? Uair, nair, bair, check. Quick grounded attacks? Jab, check.

 

[milesg2g]

Teams are just the most fun of the game imo.
The MU are never totally right. Something could always happen
and Wombo'ing is just too fun lol

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

Punish
Carry- 7
Stock Tank- 7
Punisher- 8
DPS- 8

Shouldn't Pikachu be a Punish / DPS?

 

[milesg2g]

I actually think snake is a better partner then Mk.
He can hold his stocks longer and he's way more of a threat to the other team. Since he takes forever to die any of his allies can be pretty reckless in most cases. and he can kill faster.

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

I actually think snake is a better partner then Mk.
He can hold his stocks longer and he's way more of a threat to the other team. Since he takes forever to die any of his allies can be pretty reckless in most cases. and he can kill faster.

The only flaw with Snake as a team mate is his gernades and mines. And if team attack were to be on, his Mortar Launcher.

 

[MJG]

Team Attack IS on in competitive play.

 

[Darky-Sama]

Snake is a much better stock tank and punisher, but unlike Meta Knight, he requires a bit of babysitting depending on the match-ups. That, and Meta Knight doesn't have nearly as much difficulty when it comes to 2v1s. A partner could stock tank and punish {such as Snake or Wario}, while Meta Knight is the main DPS character.

Meta Knight is much more compatible with majority of the roster though, IMO.

 

[milesg2g]

The only flaw with Snake as a team mate is his gernades and mines. And if team attack were to be on, his Mortar Launcher.

TA's always on in Competitive play.
yes his mines can get in the way but he's a better partner all around if you ask me

 

[TheRockSays]

Well of some us in the ZSS board gave input and came out with avg.

Carry: 7
stock tank: 6.6
punisher : 7.6
DPS: 9.25

I just got 3rd in teams at one of our locals. What I can say is that ZS should be very high punisher and DPS, low on carry, mid on stock tank.

When you get stuck in 2v1 ZS is very easily punishable imo. Your idea teammates would be someone who can handle those situations better than you, and can set up your punishes.

zss + mother boy = own. in two seconds, you can heal lucas by 100% and ness by about 70-80%. that's the time it takes for an opponent to get back.

i don't think suit pieces are very useful in teams. your opponents can get control of them too fast if your partner doesn't know how to play with them especially since you might start the match in a position where you can't throw them away (fd, smashville). although, the fact that it's 2v2 will also help the suit pieces in a way; people like falco can't just reflect the projectiles anymore for risk of getting punished by your partner.

for offensive support, dsmash is ****. if your partner can follow up your dsmashes quick enough, you'll be landing even the most ridiculous of things like lucas usmash, d3 dash attack, etc etc.

zamus' speed makes her a good defensive support, a stale uair can actually save your partner from falling helplessly to their death if you're fast enough. dash attack is good for saving your partner from an attack/grab, fast.

zss is combo queen, period. i think she deserves 9-10 in dps.

however, i doubt her punishing capability. i've never used zamus in doubles before, but the way i see it, she only has a few kill moves: flip kick, plasma whip, uair, fair, bair. uair will be really stale unless we're talking about at the start of zamus' stock. fair and bair are slow to land because of zamus' -really high- shorthop. flip kick is situational, and that leaves plasma whip as her only punishment move.

My input.

Carry: ZSS is a character with a huge arsenal begins with Suit pieces,is able to glide toss, Is able to keep up with most of the high tier roster.
Stock Tank:I think she is a decent stock tank she has many recovery options, mostly dies after 80-90%(statistically speaking)with hard hits and her tether recovery has incredible reach but its also a weakness.
Punisher: ZSS is known for good combinations with many characters her Stunning is her biggest asset and leaves other characters vulnerable for partners to take advantage of the situation.
DPS: ZSS is quite possibly one of the best damage dealers in the game because how most of her moves that are used are very fast and sometimes chainable to other moves.
gimmick: her gimmicks With ness or lucas is providing healing with down smash or B. We all know what she is capable with G&W.

 

[Darky-Sama]

ZSS's average in my opinion.
Not too different from the average.

Carry: 7 {possibly 8}
Stock Tank: 6
Punisher : 7
DPS: 9


Carry; It's pretty obvious that ZSS is a good team carrier. She's not as subjectable to many combos and locks that characters throw out at the roster on the regular due to her flip jump option, judging she has at least three frames of reaction time. She's extremely decent when it comes to babysitting or assisting due to her mobility on the ground and in the air {not to mention her side+B, both grounded and aerial are decent at assisting her partner}.

Stock Tank; When it comes to stock tanking, ZSS can go both ways. She has good mobility, jumps, options of avoid her opponent with flip jump mind games, but in 2v2s, if both characters are focused on her, she can get wrecked... really, really badly. She's hard to punish, but for the lone fact that she dies so quickly, it's hard to say rather she's a good stock tank or a really bad one.

Punisher; She's a decent punisher. Downsmashing opponents as they attempt to recover back onto the stage, rather they roll onto the stage into a downsmash or attempt to go above the stage and into an up+b. When it comes to partner strategies, if a teammate grabs an opponent while near her, she can space a downsmash and stun her opponent out of the grab without hitting her partner.

DPS; Obvious ratio is obvious. Downsmash -> Downsmash -> Aerial racks up unescapable damage with ease. One downsmash can result in a 30%+ combo with one string of attacks.

Gimmicks; As it's been said ZSS goes well with Ness and Lucas due to the PK Magnet recovery. Game and Watch's bucket fill-up via downsmash. With Snake, stun, C4, Up tilt, kaboom.

One other nice thing about ZSS that works with multiple characters in the roster is her downsmash -> footstool setups. Characters like Pikachu can jab lock an opponent out of it, then ZSS can simply downsmash them again if it comes down to a 2v1. Pretty situational, but it's not hard at all to perform if given the chance.

 

[Kitamerby]

Hee hee hee Lucario. Makes other gimmicks look... like gimmicks.

ZSS get wrecked.

 

[phi1ny3]

With how many good results Lucario's gotten w/o Anubis, I'd say he handles pretty well w/o a gimmick as well.

And here we were thinking that Lucario was garbage in doubles

 

[Kitamerby]

With how many good results Lucario's gotten w/o Anubis, I'd say he handles pretty well w/o a gimmick as well.

And here we were thinking that Lucario was garbage in doubles

We were like the opposite of ZSS.

Who just claims she's amazing without actually doing anything. <3

 

[milesg2g]

Lucario is very good in 2v2's as well as Zss

Zss it's only annoying because she can run so easily.
Lu's good for obvious reasons

 

[Ayoub]

Is Pit/Lucas a good team?
Why and why not?
Anyone who got some tips for some teamcombo's and stuff?
Same with Pit/Marth...

 

[TheOriginalSmasher]

Is Pit/Lucas a good team?
Why and why not?
Anyone who got some tips for some teamcombo's and stuff?
Same with Pit/Marth...

I can see Pit/Lucas be a good team. Both have great ranged, and both have a GTFO move. The only dissability, is there isn't too much of a stock tank

 

[milesg2g]

I can see Pit/Lucas be a good team. Both have great ranged, and both have a GTFO move. The only dissability, is there isn't too much of a stock tank

They're both pretty light. and Pit can't just hold things down if Lucas gets knocked away for a second or 2

 

[Technodeath]

i havent really bothered going through the thread to see any Q's about Luigi.

but who exactly would be his better partner?
i'm going to go ahead and assume it's one of either MK, Snake or Diddy?

 

[Kitamerby]

i havent really bothered going through the thread to see any Q's about Luigi.

but who exactly would be his better partner?
i'm going to go ahead and assume it's one of either MK, Snake or Diddy?

Olimar's a really good combo with Luigi.