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unknown522

Some guy
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Toronto, Ontario
oh oh, I see some hate now. =P
ya unknowns a big hater
maybe. I just don't see what all the hype for him is about....

He did beat Bam though at pound 4. When he told us, we all **** ourselves, then Raynex bursted out laughing.

Also, I'm pretty sure that when WC and south figure out how to fight marth, that he will start losing a lot. Just the lack of good marths now is catching you all by surprise.
 

xbombr

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 31, 2009
Messages
767
Location
Maryville, MO
I mentioned repeated dtilts as a joke. No competent marth player would do that. They would dtilt once because it is literally unpunishable by samus and then do something else that would beat what samus doing/going to do. Aka what dark sonic posted.
Samus has some options that clank with dtilt.

This is really what your projectiles are for though. WD back and shoot them. Charge shot (charged or not) or standing missile.

Marth's methods for eliminating projectiles do not include dtilting.
 

HugS™

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
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1,486
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DBR
Falcomist let me win by 4 stocks the 2nd match, that wasn't legit. He thought that I could make it in if I beat him. I let him know that if I beat him and he lost to SS, he wouldn't make it out. However, if he beat SS, it didn't matter if I beat him or not, I wasn't going to make it out. He beat SS...

The 3rd match was legit. I don't know what else to say about that. Falcomist definitely doesn't suck though. He definitely got 1st seed in possibly the hardest pool @ pound4.
 

unknown522

Some guy
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Toronto, Ontario
I hear what you're saying, and getting 1st in that pool is legit. But I can definitely say that my pool was harder than that...I don't consider mine to be the hardest at all though. But I would've gladly traded my pool for that one.

I'm pretty sure that many other players would've traded their pool for that one.
 

HugS™

Smash Lord
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Jan 23, 2009
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DBR
The pool difficulty is subjective. I can safely say that your pool is far easier than mine from my perspective, assuming I switch with you/PP/Vidjo. As a samus player, you could understand why a pool with: sheik, falcon, marth, doc, and luigi would be highly unfavorable. And all players in my pool are known players of these characters in all corners of the states. On the contrary, I can't say I've heard much of anything about 4% or Jace...excuse my ignorance :/

There were many other spacie filled groups that I would have adored, especially considering that half my pool wouldn't have been from my home state had I been in another pool.
 

unknown522

Some guy
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The pool difficulty is subjective. I can safely say that your pool is far easier than mine from my perspective, assuming I switch with you/PP/Vidjo. As a samus player, you could understand why a pool with: sheik, falcon, marth, doc, and luigi would be highly unfavorable. And all players in my pool are known players of these characters in all corners of the states. On the contrary, I can't say I've heard much of anything about 4% or Jace...excuse my ignorance :/

There were many other spacie filled groups that I would have adored, especially considering that half my pool wouldn't have been from my home state had I been in another pool.
that's fair. Also, the location-failure was pretty gay. I feel your pain:

At pound 3, plank put raynex and I in the same pool round 2, along with watty (who I played in the previous pool), azen, zelgadis, swiftbass, kirbstir, and someone that I forget and wouldn't change us. Raynex and I had been teaming for 3 years at that point, and pretty much exclusively practiced with each other, so I forfeited to him after my controller broke (which made me lose a 3-stock lead in the final match vs zelgadis).

Also in that same round, he put KK and IB in the same pool, along with PC chris, darkrain, korn, and I forget who else.

Somehow with 16 pools of 8 people, and 5 canadians left, 2 + 2 were in the same pool (kage was by himself). On top of that, Raynex + Mylself, and Kage + KK were the only 2 canadian teams to make it into brackets, and we played each other first round......it was amazing.

We ended up getting 9th though, losing to Eggz + cactuar 3 rounds after.

Anyways, enough rambling. Back to marth.
 

cykofox

Smash Ace
Joined
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760
Location
Burbank, IL
sheik and falcon both **** the **** out of marth. spaminals do also except on fd cuz of chaingrab.
marth was only good back then cuz no one abused abusive abuse of today.
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 12, 2009
Messages
4,917
Somehow with 16 pools of 8 people, and 5 canadians left, 2 + 2 were in the same pool (kage was by himself). On top of that, Raynex + Mylself, and Kage + KK were the only 2 canadian teams to make it into brackets, and we played each other first round......it was amazing.
Bam + Vwins?

Anyway, Hugs, what are your thoughts on Marth/Samus?
 

TheCrimsonBlur

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
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3,407
Location
LA, CA near Santa Monica
I think we can all agree that Marth is somewhere between Yoshi and Kirby in the tier list. The big question is whether he is above Mewtwo. I mean, Taj is pretty amazing so I'd have to say below, but what do you guys think?

Also, Bowser counters Marth. Firebreath edgeguard all day every day.
 

john!

Smash Hero
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sheik and falcon both **** the **** out of marth. spaminals do also except on fd cuz of chaingrab.
marth was only good back then cuz no one abused abusive abuse of today.
yeah ken and m2k weren't using a top tier character to dominate everybody, the rest of the world except for them was just bad at smash
 

Devil Ray

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
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Seoul, South Korea
unknown, why are you hating on the falcomist? it's not like he's a scrub

marth is a very good character, but probably only 5th on the tier list. even tho no one plays marth anymore, EVERYONE knows the matchup. as mr. brightside says, he just depends on the mental aspect of the game too much
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
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Falco < Jigglypuff (Falco = Jigglypuff)
Falco = Fox
Falco = Ice Climbers
Falco = Marth
Falco = Peach (Falco < Peach)
Falco = Samus
Falco > Dr.Mario
Falco > Falcon
Falco > Ganondorf
Falco > Luigi
Falco > Mario
Falco > Pikachu
Falco > Sheik
Falco >> DK
Falco >> Mr.G&W (Falco > Mr.G&W)
Falco >> Roy
Falco >> Zelda
Falco >>> Bowser
Falco >>> Kirby
Falco >>> Link (Falco >> Link)
Falco >>> Mewtwo
Falco >>> Ness
Falco >>> Pichu
Falco >>> Yoshi
Falco >>> Young Link
 

Dr Peepee

Thanks for Everything <3
Moderator
BRoomer
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Falco is probably even with Puff, but I'm not sure(I can make an argument or post some thoughts about it later if necessary I guess).

Only other thing that surprised me a little is Falco only >Ganon, but maybe it really isn't that bad.
 

Nintendude

Smash Hero
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
5,024
Location
San Francisco
I actually agree with the Falco list entirely the way it is except Sheik vs. Falco may be about even. That particular matchup really seems to swing either way depending on who's playing.
 

rhan

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 16, 2007
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SoVA 757
Falco = Samus
Falco > Sheik
Falco >>> Young Link
Falco v Young Link & Samus look legit. But I always though Sheik v Falco went 55/45 in Sheik's favor... How do the Falco/Sheik players feel about that matchup? I'm kinda brain dead and burnt at the moment and can't think all too well.. Plus I'd rather hear other's opinions..
 

t3h Icy

Smash Master
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Falco is probably even with Puff, but I'm not sure(I can make an argument or post some thoughts about it later if necessary I guess).

Only other thing that surprised me a little is Falco only >Ganon, but maybe it really isn't that bad.
<3

I think most Ganons will say it's Falco > Ganon since Ganon is a tall and quite big target for lasering, Dairing and all that jazz. Falco also has a much safer approach. Ganondorf though can usually kill Falco once he's off the stage.

Falco = Puff in my opinion. Jigglypuff has many auto-combos that can lead to Rest and Falco is one of the easiest characters for Jigglypuff to gimp. But it's not totally gay for Falco because he has laser, the Dair, etc. When Dairing Jigglypuff, Falco can usually follow up, since Jigglypuff can only tech so far and Falco is quick enough. Shining also keeping Jigglypuff in the air, which she can't do much from besides Dairing, or spaced falling Bairs, while Falco can Uair, space Nair or Dair, and other things. Falco's high and fast jumping speed can chase Jigglypuff vertically well.

Falco just can't do dumb **** against Jigglypuff, and Jigglypuff needs to either combo into rest or get Falco off the stage.

One dumb thing a lot of people do against Jigglypuff is trying to edgeguard her. Especially with Falco, you'll want to stay in the middle-ish area so you don't get gimped yourself. Falco has an easier time hitting Jigglypuff, so he should win the exchange more often than not. Falco's lasers can also still hit a recovering Jigglypuff, so he can still get in damage while also being safe.
 

everlasting yayuhzz

Smash Champion
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swaggin' to da maxxx
I'd say Falco vs Puff and Peach vs Puff is even if the Falco doesn't go into autopilot and actually abuses the fact that he's Falco.

Also, you forgot Falco vs Falco.

That matchup is Falco >>>> Falco.
 

*P*L*U*R*

Smash Hero
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Sep 20, 2008
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Dance to express, not impress!
I've been saying. That for the longest time. Falco/Falco is 100/0/0/100. Once falco gets hit, he stands no chance as falco utterly ***** him, his family, his friends and his dreams.

Pretty dumb.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
Joined
Dec 21, 2005
Messages
16,256
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Northern IL
I'll simply go by my experience on a few match ups before I have to head out again. People usually just chime in with "well it's HugS, not Samus, otherwise Samus gets *****" which is why I refrain from posting any kind of opinions I have on match ups.

Anyways.

I believe Samus has a slight advantage on Falco. It's so hard to describe why some matches are advantageous since there is so much that goes into a match. So in the interest of communication, I'll break the matchup down into 3 crucial categories:

1. Defense
2. Offense
3. Edge game

Samus effectively shuts down Falco's offensive game with her defensive game. I'll assume that the prevention of your opponent's offense is the main purpose of a good defense. Simply put, Samus's upB out of shield stops most any effective approach Falco has in any other match up. The Falco can only hope to be able to trick the samus into mis-timing or mis-using her upB. These are artificial ways of dealing with the situation IMO, as tricks run thin. You can play rock paper scissors with a good samus and hope she can't figure out when you're grabbing/attacking. Any attack will be beaten.

If you do manage to get that first hit in, Samus has her passive defense, which involves her inability to be combo'd very well. Not that it's flawless, but it helps make this portion of the match up go into her favor.

Defense Adavntage - Samus

Offense - Clearly, falco has a better offense. He can overwhelm most any character. Samus's offense isn't the greatest, but it's better than Falco's defense. And if Falco's Defense has 1 purpose, it's to stop Samus's offense, and it won't be able to do that. Missiles aid in the approach, and once Samus is in there, it becomes a matter of outranging Falco and being able to quickly switch to defensive mode if needed. The main factor that puts this slightly in Samus's favor (IMO) is falco's ability to be combo'd. Which means that Samus need break through falco's defense only once to possibly end his stock. And if the falco is camping, Samus can close in with missiles, break through lasers with a wavedash - tilt and catch falco only once to tie up the damage, or take the stock. This is all hard, mind you, which is why most people don't even consider this an advantage for Samus. Either way, it's only a slight advantage to either no matter how you look at it.

Offense - Slight Advantage for either Falco/Samus,

3. Edge Game - It's no surprise that falco has a shoddy recovery. It's also no surprise that Samus has one of the best. So this part of the Edgegame clearly goes to Samus.

As far as edgeguarding goes, that requires some analysis. I'd have to give Samus the advantage on this one. Samus has an amazing edgeguard coupled with the fact that Falco has a terrible recovery. Limiting his options is cake. If he side-B's, ftilt. If he up B's from below, utilt. If you don't know where he's going, shoot a missile/shot to make him go where you want, then commence with the process. Falco on the other hand, must keep track of all her options. First he must get rid of the grapple, then he must stop a sweet spot, which ain't gonna happen if the Samus sweetspots perfectly. And if the falco grabs the ledge, you should still have your jump to get in anyways. This on top of the fact that's there's no distance samus can't come back from means that Samus doesn't die from falco edgeguards.

3. Advantage - Samus

So I hope that helps explain why I feel Samus has the slight advantage over falco. I don't have more time to write about other characters atm. And I could probably delve into Samus vs Falco even more, but I think this is enough.

And FYI Fletch, your sig is dumb. You can employ patient thinking/predicting in checkers or chess, the main difference between the two games is the amount of options, and chess, like Melee, most definitely delivers more options.
a post hugs made about 2 months ago in this thread
 
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