New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

n's partially right. Lucario had popularity mainly because of a movie. And then an Anime appearance, and was an in-game(regular event) similar to Eevee.

Not to say he wasn't the best choice for Gen 4. Why? Name one non-Legendary movie character? I can't.

As for Gen 3, it could've been repped too, and Deoxys does seem like a good choice besides Plusle & Minun. I do hope all 5 Gens get a minimum of one character starting with Smash 4. Even if it's across all the games, and not in one only. Alternatively, the 3DS version could have Gen III if we get the R/S remake, while the Wii U gets the 5th Gen. Of course, by connecting the games, you get all the characters.

This could be done with more than one series. Toad for Wii U(New Super Mario Bros. Wii), and Bowser Jr. for 3DS (New Super Mario Bros.)

Tingle for 3DS, and Girahaim/Impa for Wii U.

Those are just some ideas.

Pichu's only purpose was to represent the baby Pokemon.

And 2nd Gen. It's a dual purpose.

 

[nLiM8d]

I wonder who found it necessary that Deoxys change fighting forms?

Wouldn't it be enough to make it a part of his moveset? I don't know maybe I'm just crazy.

On that other note, I figure I could relate my philosophy to thematic trend. Your example of pichu would fit that description since Pokechildren was a strong theme in Gen II.

This could be done with more than one series. Toad for Wii U(New Super Mario Bros. Wii), and Bowser Jr. for 3DS (New Super Mario Bros.)

Tingle for 3DS, and Girahaim/Impa for Wii U.

I'm right there with you on that actually. Except it does have its flaws (ask Kuma)

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wonder who found it necessary that Deoxys change fighting forms?

Wouldn't it be enough to make it a part of his moveset? I don't know maybe I'm just crazy.

On that other note, I figure I could relate my philosophy to thematic trend. Your example of pichu would fit that description since Pokechildren was a strong theme in Gen II.

For its moveset, I'm thinking that it temporarily takes on a form when doing an appropriate move. It could be that when he defends, he goes into Defense Mode, or when he dashes or uses an air attack, he goes into Agility Mode. Another is doing other regular Attacks, except for B moves, to go into Attack Mode. In 10 seconds, he reverts.

I'm right there with you on that actually. Except it does have its flaws (ask Kuma)

Not seeing it. There's no overrepping at all. Buying both games makes sense.

 

[Oasis_S]

Why should Bowser Jr. be on the 3DS version when Toad is the better choice. Why should the 3DS have different Pokemon to solve a problem that only you are perceiving.

 

[nLiM8d]

Shut up Oasis, its his perception regardless.

For its moveset, I'm thinking that it temporarily takes on a form when doing an appropriate move.

Exactly

 

[Sunnysunny]

Im kinda against deoxys. He wasn't that popular of a pokemon (when it comes to gen mascots) anyways, and what fame he did have is fleeting thanks to the newer gen mascots.

But his movesets would be pretty damn fun to see.
If he is put in the game i'd want him to have multiple forms. Speed and defense would be a whole hell of alot fun to play as. I could see the defense form having slow moves with some hits of hyper armor.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

For its moveset, I'm thinking that it temporarily takes on a form when doing an appropriate move. It could be that when he defends, he goes into Defense Mode, or when he dashes or uses an air attack, he goes into Agility Mode. Another is doing other regular Attacks, except for B moves, to go into Attack Mode. In 10 seconds, he reverts.

The main reason for my Deoxys input is the fact that Deoxys's stats change with each form. By using Transform, you could choose which form you want to utilize.

For one example, Attack Deoxys would offer the strongest offensive attacks, but its specials reduce its priority by heavily hindering its power, and even increasing the amount of damage it takes.

When you switch to Defense Deoxys, Deoxys's defenses are quite high, but its speed and power are hindered. Its weight also gets a boost, and two of its specials involve defending against direct, and indirect attacks.

But again, the main problem is that you can't switch from Attack Form to Normal Form; you have to go to Speed Form before heading to Normal Form.

 

[nLiM8d]

Teetering towards that end of the spectrum huh?

I like Starpoenix's "King Maker" conception regarding Popularity/Relevance

I'm sure Pichu was pretty popular right? Yeah, wonder what became of that?

The main reason for my Deoxys input is the fact that Deoxys's stats change with each form. By using Transform, you could choose which form you want to utilize.

Sounds like you're actually playing a Pokemon game .

I guess Someone has to Stick up for the weak.

Time for you to become stronger then Osbrosis

 

[Oasis_S]

Shut up Oasis, its his perception regardless.

I guess Someone has to Stick up for the weak.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sounds like you're actually playing a Pokemon game.

Well my idea comes from the fact that you can choose your Deoxys form in the 4th generation titles.

 

[Oasis_S]

Standing up to my Strength?!



Also, on each stage there should be four meteorites just for Deoxys to use to allow him to switch forms.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The main reason for my Deoxys input is the fact that Deoxys's stats change with each form. By using Transform, you could choose which form you want to utilize.

For one example, Attack Deoxys would offer the strongest offensive attacks, but its specials reduce its priority by heavily hindering its power, and even increasing the amount of damage it takes.

When you switch to Defense Deoxys, Deoxys's defenses are quite high, but its speed and power are hindered. Its weight also gets a boost, and two of its specials involve defending against direct, and indirect attacks.

But again, the main problem is that you can't switch from Attack Form to Normal Form; you have to go to Speed Form before heading to Normal Form.

But why waste a potential special move on a single "Transformation"? Sure, it has more depth in a sense. But unless you can only be in your special mode for a certain time, it doesn't automatically balance out. It depends how well each form does with the moveset. It's also essentially four styles in one, which is a bit harder to do than one might think.

Also, got to go.

 

[nLiM8d]

Most definitely, that would be an excellent way to signify the Pokemon battle system.

If they could design it to meet Deoxys' multiple, I'd be content with that. The more realistic approach would probably be in the interest of dev time.

Who knows which pokemon will make it this time around.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Why not just have different movesets for each form. (After all the techniques it can remember change from form to form) and switching between forms doesn't have to be a linear path.

For example.

Down b: Deoxys stops in place and his core glints a half second after pressing the button. During the core glint the player can input left for defense, up for attack, and right for speed and deoxys will transform accordingly then strike a pose once the transformation is complete. If no input aftet the glint is selected he'll go into normal deoxys mode by default.

 

[nLiM8d]

How about not even having a form switch ingame.

Just have an option to change it from the char select.

 

[Sunnysunny]

I was thinking of that as an alternative. The concept of having all movesets in one sounds fun.

...but theres obviously some balance issues if deoxys can turn into a speed demon, into a defense tank within a few seconds. If the forms are done right that is! Pokemon trainer feels like deoxys done wrong. If given the choice squirtle is always the superior choice.

 

[Conviction]

Obviously there would have a to be a limit of how regularly Deoxys could change forms.

1 min would have to pass before being to transform again. Yeah, that sounds balanced enough.

 

[nLiM8d]

The concept of having all movesets in one sounds fun.

So essentially what you're saying is that a "Gen fighter" format would be an alternative and the all in one would be the first rate choice?

I can dig it, supposing that Iblis is onto something. Man, what would the metagame for that character be like?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I was thinking of that as an alternative. The concept of having all movesets in one sounds fun.

...but theres obviously some balance issues if deoxys can turn into a speed demon, into a defense tank within a few seconds. If the forms are done right that is! Pokemon trainer feels like deoxys done wrong. If given the choice squirtle is always the superior choice.

Well I've made my inputs, in terms of each form's pros and cons...

*Normal: Balanced at all aspects.
*Attack: Very strong offense; very weak defense; specials are very strong, but heavily hampers its offense, and one of them even increases the damage it receives.
*Defense: Very strong defense; low power and speed; heavier; two specials involve defending from attacks.
*Speed: Balanced offense and defense; very strong speed; very light and floaty; specials are weak in power.

Obviously there would have a to be a limit of how regularly Deoxys could change forms.

1 min would have to pass before being to transform again. Yeah, that sounds balanced enough.

That's actually a great idea to use. How about when Deoxys's body starts to glow, you can use Transform; at any other time, the move can't be utilized. It would be similar to how Wario's glow is a sign that the Wario Waft is at full power.

 

[Conviction]

So essentially what you're saying is that a "Gen fighter" format would be an alternative and the all in one would be the first rate choice?

I can dig it, supposing that Iblis is onto something. Man, what would the metagame for that character be like?

Very diverse to say the least. His Match-ups would be hard to define, hopefully his movesets in each form would be useful though, unlike how PT only useful character is Squirtle and then Charizard is only semi-useful and then Ivy is garbage.

That's actually a great idea to use. How about when Deoxys's body starts to glow, you can use Transform; at any other time, the move can't be utilized. It would be similar to how Wario's glow is a sign that the Wario Waft is at full power.

Yeah, maybe a starry glint would radiate from Deoxys when he can transform. Image Super/Hyper Sonic

 

[Aurane]

I saw this in the PokeCenter, posted by some other dude, but take a look:
http://www.siliconera.com/2011/12/23/who-are-the-heroes-in-pokmon-nobunagas-ambition/
We be lookin good. Maybe... This game... Will have a rep..? No! Perposterous... Or...

 

[Big-Cat]

Teetering towards that end of the spectrum huh?

Except Gen is always in either his Mantis or Crane stance. That's essentially an on-off switch. The only character who I think could use something like that and not be weird is Zamus with a Gun-Whip dual moveset or possibly Ice Climbers if revamped (don't think it's needed though).

Obviously there would have a to be a limit of how regularly Deoxys could change forms.

1 min would have to pass before being to transform again. Yeah, that sounds balanced enough.

Except 1 minute in fighting game time is an eternity.

On the Ice Climber thing, let me ask this question again: What do you think of there being a specific move solely for desycning the Ice Climbers? Like, make it where Popo and Nana normally are ALWAYS together (meaning you can't KO Nana like in the past) regardless of knockback or not. When you desync, Nana stays put and Popo moves on his own. Switch around with them and you can call the other one back like Olimar's Pikmin.

Just a thought.

Another question. Melee and Brawl's air games are considerably better than the ground game. What should be done to make the ground game stronger without necessarily hurting the air game? I see way more aerials being used than ground normals and that's always bugged me.

 

[Aurane]

Another question. Melee and Brawl's air games are considerably better than the ground game. What should be done to make the ground game stronger without necessarily hurting the air game? I see way more aerials being used than ground normals and that's always bugged me.

The fighting style is rounded off by jumping, therefore aerial battling is prone to stick.

 

[Darksol55]

I don't mean to offend anyone, but do people really want Pichu in SS4B? It don't get why people would vote for it (pikachu clone) over other good, not to mention original additions over in the top roster candidate thread. Feel free to slam me if you think otherwise...

 

[Big-Cat]

The fighting style is rounded off by jumping, therefore aerial battling is prone to stick.

I never said get rid of the aerial game. Rather, I'm saying that I'd like more of a ground game to be present in Smash. I watch matches and see mostly aerials being used. Not a whole lot of ground normals. There are 7 (9 if you count AA and AAA) ground normals, and 5 aerials. Why are nearly half of the normals not used for most characters if this is the case?

On the Pichu thing. I don't recall a single thing from Sakurai saying he represented the baby Pokemon and 2nd gen. He was put in because he wanted a joke character and chose Pichu for that.

 

[Conviction]

Except 1 minute in fighting game time is an eternity.

.

Obviously,

would you rather him be able to change ever 30 to 60 frames? That's outrageous. Brawl consists of 8 mins per game competitively, so that equals 8 transforms. It's up to player skill on how to use them and each the transforms movesets.

Just like Wario's Waft, it's not something that should come around so quickly in a game.

1 min is not that long of a waiting period, only way it's long is if a hitbox of some sort was always out during that minute.

 

[Big-Cat]

I still can't believe a single match can take eight minutes to finish. That's ridiculous. I swear, if this game had actual combos....

 

[nLiM8d]

His Match-ups would be hard to define, hopefully his movesets in each form would be useful though, unlike how PT only useful character is Squirtle and then Charizard is only semi-useful and then Ivy is garbage.

It would certainly be a 1-up if Deoxys took over that role, at least it would make sense to have an all in one for him.

I certainly would prefer that a setup like whats found in most hacks, would be made accessible for PT.

My suggestion: make the tri set of pokemon local to Red and when by themselves they have trainers from their respective gens

Spoiler

Let the mutha****in shippings begin

Except Gen is always in either his Mantis or Crane stance. That's essentially an on-off switch.

Exactly what I recommend for Deoxys

On the Pichu thing.

You are the absolute last person that I expected to go quote hunting for such a thing as this. Regardless, it turned out thematic respective to its specific Gen. Coincidence?

Depends on Gamefreak really.

Another question. Melee and Brawl's air games are considerably better than the ground game.

What's interesting about that is that Melee's physics felt more grounded, Brawls are floaty. Yet the one that you would expect to be the obvious choice for ground game is actually the most aerial.

How bout that? I wonder where we can find a medium.

Personally, I enjoy fighting on the ground, most of my aerial techniques are suited for feints and spacing. I figure if the grabs weren't so instantaneous we might see more fighting techniques / setups to promote ground game.

 

[Conviction]

I still can't believe a single match can take eight minutes to finish. That's ridiculous. I swear, if this game had actual combos....

I'm just basing things off the most recent game.

 

[Big-Cat]

You are the absolute last person that I expected to go quote hunting for such a thing as this. Regardless, it turned out thematic respective to its specific Gen. Coincidence?

Depends on Gamefreak really.

I didn't quote hunt. It's something I remember reading up on. There's a thread on Starmen.net iirc that covers that kind of stuff. The representation, IMO, is nothing more than a coincidence.

What's interesting about that is that Melee's physics felt more grounded, Brawls are floaty. Yet the one that you would expect to be the obvious choice for ground game is actually the most aerial.

How bout that? I wonder where we can find a medium.

Personally, I enjoy fighting on the ground, most of my aerial techniques are suited for mind games and spacing. I figure if the grabs weren't so instantaneous we might see more fighting techniques / setups to promote ground game.

I think adding chains into Smash, with not everything being DI-able, would make a gigantic difference. I think the game could play like a more mobile and free moving King of Fighters as that game uses aerials quite often while still having a strong ground game with mix-ups.

The problem, to an extent, is that damage is not dealt quickly enough (see Brawl) and this just hurts not only the characters, but the entire game in entertainment value. I know some people don't like combos, but I'd rather have a match determined in 3-5 minutes as opposed to 6-8 minutes.

I'm just basing things off the most recent game.

I see where you're coming from, but I like to approach things in terms of things being isolated so I'm not limited in possibilities.

 

[nLiM8d]

I think adding chains into Smash, with not everything being DI-able, would make a gigantic difference. I think the game could play like a more mobile and free moving King of Fighters as that game uses aerials quite often while still having a strong ground game with mix-ups.

What's interesting about that is I can actually see this being implemented to an extent. A matter of emphasis on a move's effectiveness.

What I notice, especially in Brawl, is that there's such a high emphasis on knockback. Angles of influence etc. I'd like to see more moves that have the effect like pikachu's headbutt (neutral A) or luigi's sweep kick (Down Tilt).

Moves and technique that allow you to get technical with it.

I wonder if folks would hate it if damage ratio's effected your character's stamina, but that's a conversation for another time.

I'd rather have a match determined in 3-5 minutes as opposed to 6-8 minutes.

A match that CAN be determined in that length of time would be a more appropo desire. It's Certainly neat to see turnovers that cause the match to continue to the bitter end.

 

[Conviction]

Quick matches are ideal in a time crunch true, but fast paced matches that can be drawn out (DBZ) would be idealistic to me.

 

[SmashChu]

A new reformed Smashchu. I went to anger management and stopped drinking. For now.........

Anyone interested in rating my roster?

Anyways, everyone appears to be in a roster mood. So I'll join in.

Spoiler

(Character)

- Indicates unlockable character

[COLLAPSE="Roster"]Super Mario

1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser
5. Spoiler

   Toad

Donkey Kong

1. Donkey Kong
2. Spoiler

   Diddy Kong
3. Dixie Kong
4. King K. Rool

Wario

1. Wario
2. Spoiler

   Captain Syrup

Yoshi

1. Yoshi

Legend of Zelda

1. Link
2. Zelda (New Down-B)
3. Spoiler

   Sheik
   (Gains her own slot; new Down-B)
4. Ganondorf (Decloned moveset)
5. Spoiler

   Toon Link
   (Luigified moveset)

Metroid

1. Samus / Zero Suit Samus
2. Spoiler

   Ridley

Kirby

1. Kirby
2. Spoiler

   Metaknight
3. King Dedede

Star Fox

1. Fox
2. Spoiler

   Falco
   (Luigified moveset)
3. Wolf (Decloned moveset)

Fire Emblem

1. Marth
2. Ike
3. Spoiler

   Roy
   (Decloned moveset)

F-Zero

1. Captain Falcon
2. Spoiler

   Samurai Goroh

Earthbound

1. Ness
2. Spoiler

   Lucas
   (Decloned moveset)

Kid Icarus

1. Pit
2. Medusa

Puzzle League

1. Lip
2. Spoiler

   Dr. Mario
   (Luigified moveset)

Pokemon

1. Pikachu
2. Jigglypuff
3. Spoiler

   Charizard
   (Stand-alone character)
4. Spoiler

   Mewtwo
5. Spoiler

   Lucario
6. Victini

I have to explain the lack of Pokemon Trainer. The Trainer still exists, but as an option for any Pokemon. When you change colors for the Pokemon, you can also choose to give them one of six possible trainers. These trainers will send the Pokemon out into the playing field with Pokeballs and send commands or cheer in the background, but only serve an aesthetic purpose in this game. No more three-characters-in-one characters.

BTW, the trainers you can choose are Red and Leaf (both from 1st Gen), Hilbert and Hilda (5th Gen), and Lucas and Dawn (4th Gen).


Misc. Modern Franchises

1. Olimar & Pikmin
2. Little Mac
3. Isaac
4. Spoiler

   Starfy
5. Spoiler

   Shulk

Retro Franchises

1. Ice Climbers
2. R.O.B.
3. Spoiler

   Mr. Game & Watch
4. Spoiler

   Duck Hunt Dog
5. Spoiler

   Sukapon

Third Party Franchises - None[/COLLAPSE]

Dang, I feel useless on this thread these days.

I'll do this as small point. Just note I will be mostly negative (it's easier to go into why i hate it than why I like it.)
Mario, DK and Zelda are pretty good
Not sure why you added Capt Syrup. You really isn't very large in the grand scheme of things and Warioware characters probably outclass her. Since the series has gone more in that direction, not sure why she is there.
I'm on the fence on Issac and Starfy. Issac is Ok in that his series is popular, but Starfy seems forgettable. This may be more of a matter of opinion. I'm thinking there may be better larger series to take their place
Lip is kind of the same thing, but this is more a matter of opinion.
F-Zero and Kid Icarus are on the ball
Not liking the Trainer idea. Smash is very basic with it's characters. They are pretty much set as characters (even Sheik and Zelda are set as one character). Trying to make him something crazy doesn't seem right. Also, he wwas one of the most popular additions.
I do like that you kept Lucario. Too many people think he'll get cut rather than understand why he's there. i'm glad you do.
More inclined to Zoroark over Victini. I'm sure there is a reason, but I don't really get into the characters arguments. Like to here why.

Basically, the sum of it
No to Capt Syrup
Not like no Trainer
Iffy on Issac, Lip and Starfy
Glad to see Lucario
Everything else is fine.

Exactly. For example, when coming up with a moveset for Duck Hunt Dog... I made sure to include content from Duck Hunt games.

B - Duck (dog releases duck, you take control of a duck, hunter shoots it when you release B button)

Side B - Clay Pigeon (dog throws a white frisbee, hunter shoots it when you release B button)

Up B - Fly Away (dog flies with two ducks)

Down B - Laugh (dog faces the screen and laughs, hunter tries to shoot the dog but shoots the opponent in front of dog... works like Jigglypuff's Rest)

Final Smash - Open Season (you take control of hunter and you have three shots, each one hit KO.. try shooting your opponents with all those ducks flying all over the screen)

Kid of hypocritical. Tell other that Mario can't use medical equipment than say Duck Hunt Dog uses Ducks and Clay pigeons (none of which he ever remotely used). Why can he use those where Dr. Mario can't use medical equipment.

 

[Big-Cat]

What's interesting about that is I can actually see this being implemented to an extent. A matter of emphasis on a move's effectiveness.

What I notice, especially in Brawl, is that there's such a high emphasis on knockback. Angles of influence etc. I'd like to see more moves that have the effect like pikachu's headbutt (neutral A) or luigi's sweep kick (Down Tilt).

Moves and technique that allow you to get technical with it.

I wonder if folks would hate it if damage ratio's effected your character's stamina, but that's a conversation for another time.

You're mentioning of knockback reminded me of something. You could have depth where you could have a combo for either damage, knockback, or resets.

 

[nLiM8d]

Could you elaborate? Specifically, I'm curious as to how one would access these options.

My first insight tells me it has to do with how much range you put on tilting the analog stick. That in turn, reminds me of my desire to have more efficient control over button/action sensitivity.

The inputs on brawl were tight, but often accidental.
_

But please, do go on.

 

[Oasis_S]

What does SmashChu see in Zoroark. (Not a "Zoroark vs Victini" question.)

 

[SmashChu]

What does SmashChu see in Zoroark. (Not a "Zoroark vs Victini" question.)

He's the one they really promoted. That's all. I have no clue on which, if any, Pokemon will get in.

 

[SmashChu]

I think adding chains into Smash, with not everything being DI-able, would make a gigantic difference. I think the game could play like a more mobile and free moving King of Fighters as that game uses aerials quite often while still having a strong ground game with mix-ups.

The problem, to an extent, is that damage is not dealt quickly enough (see Brawl) and this just hurts not only the characters, but the entire game in entertainment value. I know some people don't like combos, but I'd rather have a match determined in 3-5 minutes as opposed to 6-8 minutes.

That's because your watching a competitive game. It's not the same in fighting games where the pros and n00bs are playing the same game at different skill levels. They are playing a different game. Brawl is slow because everything that does damage is taken off.

The reason Melee was fast was because of a lot of thing. Combos are on, but L-canceling, wavedashing and the faster mechanics in general made matches move faster. It's more the transition to Brawl, where competitive Smash didn't hold up.

What I'm saying the game is not the problem.,...

 

[Big-Cat]

Could you elaborate? Specifically, I'm curious as to how one would access these options.

My first insight tells me it has to do with how much range you put on tilting the analog stick. That then reminds me of my desire to have more efficient control over button/action sensitivity.

The inputs on brawl were tight, but often accidental.
_

But please, do go on.

It's kind of like this. You would have, essentially, three types of combos and the type is determined by how you end it. The first one, damage, is its purpose is to rack up damage, but knockback on the last move is not that great due to hitstun and/or knockback distance scaling. The second is knockback and may be just a quick combo whose sole purpose is to set distance or better position yourself for edge guarding. The last is when you choose to end one combo with something that the opponent gets out of quickly, but they have to guess the next move. One way you can use the third type is to use it to do a K.O. combo.

Here's an example of the three different types for Mario.

1. AAA > FTilt > FSmash > Short hop cancel into DAir > UTilt > Up B - Does a lot of damage, but the distance you and the opponent move is not a lot horizontally or vertically.
2. AAA > FTilt > FSmash - Less damage, but way more knockback.
3. AAA > FTilt > FSmash > Short hop cancel into NAir - After NAir, they have limited time to think as you're on the advantage. You can try something like a grab or do another combo.

 

[Oasis_S]

He's the one they really promoted. That's all. I have no clue on which, if any, Pokemon will get in.

So he'll get in as if to fill a quota? Not based on his own merits? Purely circumstantial? Conditions maybe attributable to Krom as much as we wish not to?

If only you could see and hear the tilt of my head and the high pitch of my voice.