New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Doc Louis has more advice for Little Mac...

Little Mac vs. Mewtwo
Doc Louis: Let's go son, Mewtwo is a brutal opponent, so you'll have to take it out before it gets you. Just watch out for its PSI abilities, give it a good beating, and you'll have this match in the bag. *laughs*

Little Mac vs. Mario
Doc Louis: Looks like you're up against old Mr. Nintendo himself there Mac. Anyway, Mario is a well balanced fighter without any major weaknesses. Therefore, you'll just have to get in there, and give him everything that you've got. Got it?!

Little Mac vs. Ike
Doc Louis: That sure is one big sword that Ike has there. If you're ever going to beat him Mac, you'll have to get past his powerful sword arm. Fortunately for you, he's not very fast, so take advantage of his weaknesses before he even gets a chance to fight back. Now, if only there's a chocolate bar that's as big as Ike's sword, cause I'd sure want to get a hold of that. *laughs*

 

[Johnknight1]

Wait, you said you got the "info" of Capcom "having a Mega Man design created for Brawl" from GameFAQs? You should know better than to trust them lol

Actually I got it from one of you guys, who got it from there. One of you said that they had a link that "proved it" and I blindly believed whoever it was. All I remember is it wasn't some random person. I tend to believe you guys when you say something is a "fact" without much question unless it just screams stupid, you don't give a source, or you aren't trustworthy (which only the newbies are, but I don't trust them regardless).

Maybe I got it from was Omega. That dude posted so fast he could have said George Washington is the greatest comedian of all-time without noticing it!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@ Poppy
I'm glad I could clear that up.

Spoiler

With Oasis' Weak Strong Help

That's exactly what I mean. The "considered" roster gets cut in the planning, the initial development, the pre-character model creation, the beginning of development, the initial character testing, etc. It's a long process. Also while some characters may be "cut," in rare instances (maybe the Melee clones=???) they could be revived, more than likely as clones.

By the way (on a somewhat random side note), if I seem like a **** in my last 6 or so posts it is not on purpose. I was foolish enough to go for a 3 mile jog with an aching stomach bug. That made it a trillion times worse. Overall because of that, I may or may not come across as p***y, but if I do I don't mean to come across that way. I gotta stop doing dumb crap like that!

That sounds bad. Of course, I wouldn't know, I have a super-human immune system; I haven't gotten sick since 4th grade with appendicitis, of all things.

Random side note: I just now noticed that the theme that plays when Starfy appears in Brawl is the beginning of 'Meeting the Boss Eye to Eye' from Densetsu no Stafy 1-3.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ M&S Guy
It would be funny if against the final boss of the story/adventure mode Doc suggested to Little Mac to use low blows if he needed to!

@ Poppy
I haven't been really "sick" in 2 years, but I still get small bugs and stuff. The stomach pain isn't all that bad, although I would be throwing up without my miracle medicine (Pepto Bismo) because of my weak liver. My weak liver makes everything stomach or lower organ related worse. At least it's gotten better with time.

Running made it worse though. That was not good for my stomach, especially since most of my jogging route is uphill (because I love me some mountain hiking; dat nature!).

Also, that is a pretty cool detail. I think some songs from the Legend of Starfy (as well as Paper Mario, Sin and Punishment, and especially Golden Sun) are absolutely needed!

 

[Mypantisgone]

Nah,saw that name but...i have no idea what it is,sooo...?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Nah,saw that name but...i have no idea what it is,sooo...?

Who/What are you talking about?

 

[Big-Cat]

Hmm, here is another interesting tidbbit I found on NeoGAF. We always hear about the quote where Sakurai discussed ditching the Animal Crosser idea, but the full context of the statement is actually interesting.

Looks like he was open to the idea at least. I find the reasoning a bit odd, but maybe it was due to the Subpar Emissary playing such a large role in development.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Kuma
That's part of "building the smash bros roster" process. Sakurai is probably open to dozens upon dozens of characters, they cut a few characters, create some draft move sets, cut more characters, create basic game concepts, cut some more characters, and continue this for each new step of the whole game development.

 

[---]

Didn't Sakurai already admit to considering an AC character a long time ago? Not really news IMO...


You all do realize that we have a codec thread in the backroom.

 

[Johnknight1]

This article will make you all laugh.

 

[Oasis_S]

Didn't Sakurai already admit to considering an AC character a long time ago? Not really news IMO...


You all do realize that we have a codec thread in the backroom.

The source for the Famitsu mention was always kind of sketchy though. I guess we can't know for certain unless we have a scan, BUT IT SEEMS LEGIT. And it fits with what else we know about the subject, from what he said in the Iwata Asks thing.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Didn't Sakurai already admit to considering an AC character a long time ago? Not really news IMO...


You all do realize that we have a codec thread in the backroom.

That Backroom thread is for Snake, not Pit.

 

[Big-Cat]

@ Kuma
That's part of "building the smash bros roster" process. Sakurai is probably open to dozens upon dozens of characters, they cut a few characters, create some draft move sets, cut more characters, create basic game concepts, cut some more characters, and continue this for each new step of the whole game development.

But remember that picture from Iwata Asks that most use as a reason as to why an AC character wouldn't happen? Now that we have more context behind not doing an AC character, The villager and Nook (preferably Nook) are now realistic possibilities. Rather, they have been, but everyone forgot the rest of the quote.

 

[Johnknight1]

Pit carries a codec radio. FACT!

@ Kuma
Yeah, I guess that makes sense and I (mostly) agree. Again, I think everything from Baby Wario to Diddy Kong was considered in Brawl!

 

[Big-Cat]

@ Kuma
Yeah, I guess that makes sense and I (mostly) agree. Again, I think everything from Baby Wario to Diddy Kong was considered in Brawl!

But not Waluigi.

And that Facebook thing was hilarious. I've seen a Toy Story 3 one and a Phoenix Wright one.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ Kuma
LOL, although Waluigi was definitely considered.

Also, glad that Star Fox 64 Facebook thing made you laugh. I've read that so many times, and each time the last Peppy comment makes me die a little inside.

 

[Big-Cat]

WALUIGI WASN'T CONSIDERED AND YOU KNOW THAT! WALUIGI IS A PIMPLE ON NINTENDO'S *** THAT DOESN'T DESERVE ANY ATTENTION WHAT SO EVER!!!!!!

John, what do you think of certain attacks having fixed knockback. Like, you give certain combo chains that are fixed in knockback, but rack up damage better.

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't know about a pimple, but he definitely doesn't get much love from Nintendo, spin-offs as a "minor" character in those aside.

Although I think Waluigi's Assist Trophy status pretty much shows that at some point he probably was "considered" at some point.

Also, I think knockback and stun should nearly always be based on how much damage is taken per move. However, I do think certain moves should have "fixed" knockback and stun. Actually, I think some moves already are based off such a formula. *coughGRABScough*

 

[Mypantisgone]

I was talking to lukinhassssssect.(is his user name supposed to mean "luck in ***"?0_o)

 

[wezai]

I was talking to lukinhassssssect.(is his user name supposed to mean "luck in ***"?0_o)

I believe lukinhassss is supposed to mean "little lucas" or "little lukas", then he either wants sect or ect. after his name, which I have no idea what that means. O.O

 

[Metal Overlord]

I didn't get it

 

[Big-Cat]

Also, I think knockback and stun should nearly always be based on how much damage is taken per move. However, I do think certain moves should have "fixed" knockback and stun. Actually, I think some moves already are based off such a formula. *coughGRABScough*

I don't know about that because I think the strictly sumo nature of these moves can lead to a reduction in potential diversity. Sure, it's how the KO's are made, but I don't want to see another Smash game where aerials are the name of the game.

I think chains could balance things out very well if done right. Chains, for the most part, would be your damage rackers and are the most combo friendly. At the same time, they don't do too much knockback so that's where canceling and non chain moves come into play.

Stun, IMO, needs to be kept constant regardless of how much damage is being dealt.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not even going to argue Golden. I'm not arguing any of the "rumors" of characters in Smash 64 holds much ground when compared to the characters confirmed by Sakurai, but they do have some good points. I could literally say Metal Mario was planned as a secret unlockable and it would hold just as much merit; I mean, he WAS in the game, wasn't he? He has his own announcer call, right? He was a complete character, right? (Granted, EVERYTHING was copied from Mario, but still.) The only difference is that no one would blindly believe me like they do about Peach, Pit, and Meowth (and now according to the crappier SmashWiki, Wario.)
[COLLAPSE="I'll go through simple points:"]

• Peach back then was a trillion times more important than all Pokémon and Zelda characters COMBINED! (minus Pikachu) This is probably still true, although not to that extent.
• Zelda back then hadn't sold 20 million units. Mario had sold about that many with 2-4 games at that point. Seriously, Zelda would have had only 3 characters in Melee if not for clones. Mario's Big Four were probably in from the get go. Peach and Bowser overshadowed all potential newcomers before Melee's reveal by HUGE margins.
• For the record Donkey Kong had sold several million more units than Zelda back then. If it wasn't for Rare debacle, I think Diddy Kong would have gotten in over Sheik or Young Link and Ganondorf.
• Pokémon was bigger and has remained bigger than Zelda after it's 1st 2 years of existence.
• I'm not arguing that these rumored characters were "100% confirmed" to be in the works. Rather, I am saying they may have been worked on. Again, I think literally the Brawl "considered" roster could have been upwards beyond 100. If 200 characters are "considered" for Smash Wii U/3DS I wouldn't be surprised
• Sakurai's love for Pit seems like it goes a while back. Again, I'm not saying Pit was playable. I am merely saying Pit seems like he was considered.
• Meowth has more data than just about every NPC. Waluigi didn't. The character with the most data that wasn't playable in Brawl was Mewtwo. Meowth also had quite a bit more graphic-related data than other NPCs.

[/COLLAPSE]Stop playing the gotcha game. If I wanted to do that, I'd watch pundit news.
Care to prove where it says Meowth had more data? Because until there is proof, it's just lies.
Also, considered =/= planned. Villager was considered for Brawl, but never made it to the planning stages. Toon Zelda was planned and cut for a currently unknown reason. The thing is, Bowser, Mewtwo, Dedede, and supposedly Wolf were PLANNED for the game, but cut because time and resources would not allow them. Peach, Pit, Meowth, Wario, Baby Waluigi, Godzilla, Batman, etc. could've all been considered for all we know, but until it is confirmed or heavily hinted that they were going to actually BE in the game as a playable character, they were not planned. If we determined who was considered as who was planned, the list would be likely at least 10x larger than the list we have now.
Roles or "importance" does not determine who was planned.

@ Star
That is exactly what I mean by characters being "considered." Back in Melee, Sakurai mentioned he'd like to add Lip, Takamaru, and Sukapon, and he tested the Mach Rider, the Balloon Fighter, Bubbles (from Clu-Clu Land), the Excite Biker, and the Urban Champion.

Source on this too, please, as I call shenanigans.
I remember distinctly that Sakurai said the following about the characters:
Lip: Nothing.
Takamaru: If his game ever got a sequel, he would be in Smash for sure.
Sukapon: Don't expect him in the future.
Mach Rider: His favorite character choice for "Smash 2". (Wonder why he wasn't playable then...?)
Balloon Fighter: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he would be useless if his balloons pop.
Bubbles: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he questions how she would fight.
Excitebiker: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because ramps would be needed to add to the stages. (Apparently, he can't picture him jumping, yet made Wheelie and Roader, both of which can jump...)
Urban Champion: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he didn't have much to offer in terms of playstyle.

Hmm, here is another interesting tidbbit I found on NeoGAF. We always hear about the quote where Sakurai discussed ditching the Animal Crosser idea, but the full context of the statement is actually interesting.

Wait, so he decided upon the "can't fight" thing for them because he had to prioritize his character choices?

So...does that mean.....the Villager has a chance now, considering that there are less characters he has to truly worry about? Interesting. Guess an AC character isn't as farfetched as I thought now...

 

[Johnknight1]

Aerials are half of the game, sure, but in order to land "kill" aerial moves you usually have to first use a strong tilt, a grab that stuns, a B move that stuns, or a smash attack.

Plus combos from land to air and air to land are always AWESOME!

 

[Wario Bros.]

Source on this too, please, as I call shenanigans.
I remember distinctly that Sakurai said the following about the characters:
Lip: Nothing.
Takamaru: If his game ever got a sequel, he would be in Smash for sure.
Sukapon: Don't expect him in the future.
Mach Rider: His favorite character choice for "Smash 2". (Wonder why he wasn't playable then...?)
Balloon Fighter: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he would be useless if his balloons pop.
Bubbles: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he questions how she would fight.
Excitebiker: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because ramps would be needed to add to the stages. (Apparently, he can't picture him jumping, yet made Wheelie and Roader, both of which can jump...)
Urban Champion: Beaten by the Ice Climbers in deciding the NES character because he didn't have much to offer in terms of playstyle.

I don't know any source about Takamaru, Sukapon, or Mach Rider but here is the source on the other guys (it's in Japanese though) http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1009/index.html

I can actually name a few ideas on how Balloon Fighter can fight but not now since I'm off to dinner.

 

[vicgur]

His name is lukinhasss because "lukinhas" means "little Lucas/Lukas", in Portuguese. He is from Brazil, so that makes sense.
The extra S's... I dunno, just prettyin' up the name, maybe.

Also, Kyle Hyde for Sm4sh.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know any source about Takamaru, Sukapon, or Mach Rider but here is the source on the other guys (it's in Japanese though) http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n01/n64/software/nus_p_nalj/smash/flash/1009/index.html

I can actually name a few ideas on how Balloon Fighter can fight but not now since I'm off to dinner.

Yeah, that's where I got my information on what Sakurai said about those guys. But it doesn't say anything about them being tested, which is what I'm asking a source for.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Sakurai should be a playable character in Smash

 

[vicgur]

Sakurai should be a playable character in Smash

Put Mii in Sm4sh, so we can beat the crap out of him as much as we want.

"This is for Ridley being a boss in Brawl!!"
*KO*

 

[Deleted member]

Put Mii in Sm4sh, so we can beat the crap out of him as much as we want.

"This is for Ridley being a boss in Brawl!!"
*KO*

What if Ridley is playable in Sm4sh? Would you use Ridley for that purpose? lol

 

[vicgur]

What if Ridley is playable in Sm4sh? Would you use Ridley for that purpose? lol

The vengeance would be sweeter.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

@Golden: No, because it wasn't Ridley's choice. He was forced against his will.

 

[Metal Overlord]

*fans request for Mega Man*

Sakurai: "What's that you say? Ryu for Smash? Done and done!"

 

[Deleted member]

*fans request for Mega Man*

Sakurai: "What's that you say? Mega Man for Smash? *Adds Bad Box Art Mega Man* Done and done!"

Fixed for ya.

 

[Johnknight1]

Source on this too, please, as I call shenanigans.
I remember distinctly that Sakurai said the following about the characters:
Lip: Nothing.

My source is the Melee Dojo. I think it's on the fan Q&A on said site. I'm too lazy to get it, so you can get it for yourself.

Lip's game was mentioned by Sakurai as a masterpiece, and that he wouldn't oppose mentioning her. Again (for the rest of the characters) considered does not mean tested, and tested does not mean playable. While I can't confirm Lip was ever "considered" I think given all the Japanese-only characters Sakurai considered, and the 2 that were playable.

As for my talk about the Balloon Fighter, Mach Rider, and Bubbles being tested, I think their character models (as trophies) and how Sakurai words it is probably proof of it. Sakurai probably did rough tests of Balloon Fighter, but couldn't figure out how he'd fight on the ground. With Mach Rider, you only got so many moves while you're on a bike. With Bubbles... you don't got anything!

Also, Metal Mario was literally just a metal version of Mario... although I guess that isn't much different from Doc! Plus I think in Smash 64 the Metal Box was possibly planned as an item, but was probably scrapped (although that is merely a theory that can't be confirmed nor unconfirmed by anyone but Sakurai).

As for Meowth, he has a lot of frame data. Unlike other Pokéball Pokémon, Meowth can walk and move around the stage. All the other Pokéball Pokémon like the Beedrill horde, Onix, and Snorlax attack from "behind the stage" or in pre-set motions in Smash 64. Moving around on the stage was not done by other NPC "helpers" until Melee. That alone raises the question as to whether Meowth was ever considered as a playable character.

As I've stated I think dozens of characters have been "considered," and I think given all the extra data of Meowth, it is possible he could have been in. Literally Meowth could have the same move as Mario for every move but the 3 specials. The only exception would be you would have to change the forward smash to a "scratch" instead of a punch.

Edit: So pretty much based on what I gather, they were many characters we know, think, and might never guess that were at one point or another "considered." Some of them are seriously considered in future installments, some of them are not, and a select few of them may end up being playable. Again, what I am saying is me thinking a character is considered does not mean they were. This is merely speculation, like most of this thread!

 

[Deleted member]

I have played Smash 64 extensively since I got the Virtual Console version. Meowth stays in place and merely flips it's one-dimensional image left and right like the other Pokemon...
In fact, Meowth was no different from Koffing, except he flipped left and right like Charizard.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I was planned to be in Brawl at one point. True story

 

[yani]

I believe Genesect was planned for Smash64.

 

[Metal Overlord]

^^^^^^ That was my working model for the game. They decided to cut me out of the game early on because they couldn't animate the lips properly

That's also why I wasn't in the Forbidden 7

 

[Oasis_S]

Beta image of beta King Dedede using a beta Warp Star on beta Dreamland in beta Smash 64.