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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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鉄腕
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*sigh* It's depressing to me that people have such high standards for characters being "Interesting" enough. The very first Smash Bros showed that despite how boring a character seems, he still offers possibilities. Melee and Brawl continued that sentiment.

Peach only ever got kidnapped. Ice climbers only ever jumped and swung a hammer wildly in place. R.O.B. only ever.... stood there and turned left and right. And do I even have to mentioned characters like Fox and Captain Falcon?

Little Mac has more source material for a moveset than several Smash Bros Veterans ever did.
Good point, several movesets were made up.

Captain Falcon/Ganondorf's movesets are made up, some Pokemon character moves are either made up or barrowed, the Mother characters barrowed 65% of their moves, and all the FE characters have most of their movesets made up as well.

Although, Little Mac maybe a little one sided with really only using punching and blocking moves, like Sonic, he could barrow fighting styles from other games to help flesh him out.
 

Oasis_S

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They don't even have to be as unique as Snake. I mean, Ike was "another sword-user" but at least conceptually he was something new. A heavy, slow sword-user. Perfect complement to Marth.

And I have an imagination. >: I WANT new characters to bring variety to the roster. That's something everyone should want. I don't want a bunch of characters for the sake of having a bunch of characters.
 

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They don't even have to be as unique as Snake. I mean, Ike was "another sword-user" but at least conceptually he was something new. A heavy, slow sword-user. Perfect complement to Marth.

And I have an imagination. >: I WANT new characters to bring variety to the roster. That's something everyone should want. I don't want a bunch of characters for the sake of having a bunch of characters.
That's what I'm trying to stress: Characters without source material still offer the possibility of unique playstyles, aka: variety.

In fact, I would argue that characters without source material offer MORE potential for unique playstyles, because you don't have to conform to as much existing source material, therefore allowing more flexibility in the creation of a moveset.

It's characters that already have a lot of source material that you really have to worry about. Because that source material dictates their playstyle, and to digress from that source material would be the only way to differentiate that playstyle.
 

Le vieux lapin

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*sigh* It's depressing to me that people have such high standards for characters being "Interesting" enough. The very first Smash Bros showed that despite how boring a character seems, he still offers possibilities. Melee and Brawl continued that sentiment.

Peach only ever got kidnapped. Ice climbers only ever jumped and swung a hammer wildly in place. R.O.B. only ever.... stood there and turned left and right. And do I even have to mentioned characters like Fox and Captain Falcon?

Little Mac has more source material for a moveset than several Smash Bros Veterans ever did.

Relevance is really the only argument that really matters, perhaps with the added importance of popularity in certain instances where relevance isn't enough.
That's probably the most intelligent thing I have heard on this thread.
Great point dude.
 

Oasis_S

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Indeed, but when people suggest guys like Toad and say vague things like "he can summon mushrooms or use spores," that doesn't make me want to play as him, especially when there is a better choice like Bowser Jr. that actually has the potential to be one of the most unique characters in Smash. You don't even have to think in detail about what he could do to know he'd be unique.

People suggest the Duck Hunt dog instead of Little Mac or Takamaru (OR ALL THE LOADS OF OTHER OLD CHARACTERS WITH POTENTIAL) and say "Well he could use ducks." I MEAN REALLY...

Characters like Peach are so important that they obviously bypass this little PEEVE of mine. Same for Ridley and K. Rool. Although at least for Ridley I'm sure he'd be unique enough.
 

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Indeed, but when people suggest guys like Toad and say vague things like "he can summon mushrooms or use spores," that doesn't make me want to play as him, especially when there is a better choice like Bowser Jr. that actually has the potential to be one of the most unique characters in Smash. You don't even have to think in detail about what he could do to know he'd be unique.
I just don't think it's necessary to downplay a character's potential simply because you personally don't see it. People focus so much energy into explaining why a character wouldn't work (with generally invalid arguments) instead of pouring their energy into promoting other characters.

I'm writing up a blog post about movesets, and seeing some of the things you bring up in your discussion, I think you'd be interested in reading it.
 

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They don't even have to be as unique as Snake. I mean, Ike was "another sword-user" but at least conceptually he was something new. A heavy, slow sword-user. Perfect complement to Marth.

And I have an imagination. >: I WANT new characters to bring variety to the roster. That's something everyone should want. I don't want a bunch of characters for the sake of having a bunch of characters.
Agreed, but if only people on other SSB4 hype sites and treads would fellow those guidelines, even Sakurai, although he his a bit of a hypocrite with his clones, has stated he wants new characters to add varity.

Black Knight - Defensive Tank
Caeda - Weapon switching (Lance and Sword)
Starfy - Close range damage rack up
Saki - Fast sword user with projectiles and poor killing moves
Ridley - Flying Heavyweight with good air game
Lucario - Aura ability
Little Mac - Close range attacker with many counters
Etc.
 

Oasis_S

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I just don't think it's necessary to downplay a character's potential simply because you personally don't see it. People focus so much energy into explaining why a character wouldn't work (with generally invalid arguments) instead of pouring their energy into promoting other characters.

I'm writing up a blog post about movesets, and seeing some of the things you bring up in your discussion, I think you'd be interested in reading it.
It's not that they WOULDN'T work, like you said you can tack on a moveset to damn near anything, but I just want that moveset to be something "unique." (Oooh, how subjective and vague.) And what bothers me is when I TRY to see the potential, and even the biggest of supporters don't help.

ANYWAY, I look forward to your blog.
 

Starphoenix

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That is why I stick with stages. At the end of the day they are what excite me most of all.
 

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That is why I stick with stages. At the end of the day they are what excite me most of all.
Things that I get excited are things that are probably going to end up being terrible, as usual. XP

...

... =(

edit; post 222 ftw. =P
 

army man

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It's not that they WOULDN'T work, like you said you can tack on a moveset to damn near anything, but I just want that moveset to be something "unique." (Oooh, how subjective and vague.) And what bothers me is when I TRY to see the potential, and even the biggest of supporters don't help.

ANYWAY, I look forward to your blog.
very vague indeed.....
 

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Hey, now you know how I felt in Brawl. There are only a handful of stages I actually enjoy. :(
At least all across the SSB series, there are a lot of good stages. =P UI has always been bad to mediocre, Adventure mode has always been lackluster, and stage builder sucks. =P
 

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Random: who wants to see Board the Platforms and/or race to the finish brought back? =D

I want both.
 

Oasis_S

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What if every character had their own Race to the Finish?!

I'd like to see THAT come back for Targets. Bringing back Platforms would be great too.
 

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I believe Shigeru Miyamoto (better know as the God of Video Games) made Fox's and Captain Falcon's movesets. I'm pretty sure he imagined them in hand to hand combat before Smash Bros. Some characters do require a lot of imagination (G&W, IC, ROB), but most have an upfront moveset or the basic premise of a moveset ready. Heck, with the IC all Sakurai added was team attacks, their grab, their jumping, and some stereotypical ice attacks! :laugh: Still, Duck Hunt Dog, albeit funny, is wayyyyy out there. :troll: :grin: :laugh:

:phone:
 

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At least all across the SSB series, there are a lot of good stages. =P UI has always been bad to mediocre, Adventure mode has always been lackluster, and stage builder sucks. =P
Meh, most stages I've seen I really do enjoy, only hating the Ice Climber, Game & Watch stages, 75m, and Mario Bros.

Adventure mode is o.k., but it just hasn't found a really good niche in my opinion.

As for Stage Builder, it doesn't suck that bad, but it does need some more improvement.

Brawl was a testing ground for many new ideas, SSB4 should be the final product. ;)
 

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At least all across the SSB series, there are a lot of good stages. =P UI has always been bad to mediocre, Adventure mode has always been lackluster, and stage builder sucks. =P
Trust me, there wasn't that many... >_>

Nah, at least Melee's UI was somewhat cool at the time. To me anyways. Brawl's was just horrible in many aspects.

Random: who wants to see Board the Platforms and/or race to the finish brought back? =D

I want both.
*raises hand*
 

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I believe Shigeru Miyamoto (better know as the God of Video Games) made Fox's and Captain Falcon's movesets. I'm pretty sure he imagined them in hand to hand combat before Smash Bros. Some characters do require a lot of imagination (G&W, IC, ROB), but most have an upfront moveset or the basic premise of a moveset ready. Heck, with the IC all Sakurai added was team attacks, their grab, their jumping, and some stereotypical ice attacks! :laugh: Still, Duck Hunt Dog, albeit funny, is wayyyyy out there. :troll: :grin: :laugh:

:phone:
Do you have a source on Miyamoto being the brainfather of Fox and Falcon's movesets?
 

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Board the Platform and Race to the Finish are awesome! They totally either need tons of universal ones, or one for each character (that we can play with other characters with hacks!) :grin:

:phone:
 

Artsy Omni

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Board the Platform and Race to the Finish are awesome! They totally either need tons of universal ones, or one for each character (that we can play with other characters with hacks!) :grin:

:phone:
They could have a happy medium and create a few target smash stages, with each stage hosting specific characters based on similar maneuverability.

And then they could allow us to create our own target smash for specific characters. It would be difficult to create a target smash that everybody can complete, but if you restrict each create target smash to one character, it could be really fun.
 

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Do you have a source on Miyamoto being the brainfather of Fox and Falcon's movesets?
On the SSB64 and Melee credits he is credited with their movesets, amongst many other characters he made or especially likes. I imagine their master (and the God of Gaming) knows best. :cool: :grin: :ness:

Also, creatable event matches, break the targets, board the platform, race to the finish, adventure mode, etc would be off the walls Super Awesome!!! :)

:phone:

:phone:
 

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Don't go idolizing Miyamoto too much. XP He does have flaws, believe it or not.
 

Artsy Omni

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But remember, he could have made Halo if he wanted too. ;)

Though he is on more occasions right than he is wrong.
Lol, Miyamoto should have never made that statement. "Could have" is such a subjective circumstance.

Halo is so out of his development style. It's not just a simple matter of "could have."
 

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Well, I just joined here, but I wanted to join in the discussion. This is a bit off of the current topic, but what do you guys think about the possibility of an additional retro character that is very obscure but important character in the same vain as ROB and Mr. Game and Watch? Do you think any are worthy of being in Smash? Personally, I think Sukapon from Joy Mech Fight can work, but I wanted to know your thoughts. Lookin' foward to the new game.
 

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Well, I just joined here, but I wanted to join in the discussion. This is a bit off of the current topic, but what do you guys think about the possibility of an additional retro character that is very obscure but important character in the same vain as ROB and Mr. Game and Watch? Do you think any are worthy of being in Smash? Personally, I think Sukapon from Joy Mech Fight can work, but I wanted to know your thoughts. Lookin' foward to the new game.
There's definitely support for Skapon (my preferred romanized version of his name) in the community. And I expect some retro characters will be in, given the lack of new franchises, and the fact that the current franchises are running out of super-relevant characters.

I'm all for more retro characters, especially if it can lead to a revival of sorts for those "series." As long as they keep a balance, and don't opt out of using some more important characters in order to include them.

Welcome to the community! I joined only a few days ago. =P
 

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Do you even understand what you're saying? Waluigi is a ripoff of TWO characters that has never existed in any canon other than a bizarre alternate universe where Mario characters play real world sports. He has never done ANYTHING different than all of the other characters in the games he's in.
Sort of true, though Waluigi does have his personality quirks and gimmicks. He's known for his affinity for Bob-ombs and Pirahna Plants, for example.


OK... So first off, a character saving a woman from a rampaging gorilla is actually a quest. A goal. Doubles tennis is doubles tennis. Luigi? They're called the Super Mario Bros. The character of MARIO went hand in hand with Luigi who has been a very important character in the Nintendo franchise. So fine, it's true characters can evolve and fill into the important character that they are. So I guess you're right that Waluigi has gone off and done very big things other than play tennis like... play golf... play basketball... play baseball... play soccer... play minigames... drive karts... participate in the olympics...
So now we are qualifying characters by how important their narrative is? Don't get me wrong, story in games are great... but come on now. It doesn't matter about whether or not the character does big things. Is Tetris less important of a game because it lacked a story? It's still incredibly significant. Not that I agree with your notion but Waluigi has been involved in an epic quest. One in which Mario had to dance in order to save the world! :p

I apologize you missed my point when mentioning those other characters. I meant more people have played those Mario Sports, Party, Olympics, etc. than will ever play Lucas' Mother 3. More people know Waluigi, he is more significant to people.

If we stand around and nitpick what is more important with an in-universe setting, we'll be faced with some odd results.

Your only argument for Waluigi is that YOU LIKE HIM. And you call ME biased? Go **** yourself, sir.
Actually, I don't. I'd much prefer Bowser Jr., Toad, Paper Mario, even Rawk Hawk and Doopliss. But he's popular with the younger demographic, the one that pays attention to Mario Sports, Party, and Brawl.

And you call ME biased? Go **** yourself, sir.

Did you really just tell me to go **** myself because I mentioned you might be wrong about Waluigi's chances in getting into a Video game?
 

Big-Cat

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Agreed, but if only people on other SSB4 hype sites and treads would fellow those guidelines, even Sakurai, although he his a bit of a hypocrite with his clones, has stated he wants new characters to add varity.

Black Knight - Defensive Tank
Caeda - Weapon switching (Lance and Sword)
Starfy - Close range damage rack up
Saki - Fast sword user with projectiles and poor killing moves
Ridley - Flying Heavyweight with good air game
Lucario - Aura ability
Little Mac - Close range attacker with many counters
Etc.
To add to that list.

Toad - Rushdown and mixups
Krystal - Mid-range staff user with emphasis on horizontal KOs.
Muddy Mole - Traps for zoning.
 

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Looking at that, Muddy Mole could work, as well. He's very nostalgic, and his game was actually made by Miyamoto. That, and there really isn't a puzle game rep yet.

I'm also starting to think that the possibility of Bandana Waddle Dee is becoming more and more likely due to the upcoming Kirby game. Not entirely sure, though. Any input from you guys on this?
 

Barbasol

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Looking at that, Muddy Mole could work, as well. He's very nostalgic, and his game was actually made by Miyamoto. That, and there really isn't a puzle game rep yet.

I'm also starting to think that the possibility of Bandana Waddle Dee is becoming more and more likely due to the upcoming Kirby game. Not entirely sure, though. Any input from you guys on this?
Oh I REALLY hope not... Kirby having three characters is plenty. Adding another seems like a waste, especially if it's Bandana Dee.

Muddy Mole on the other hand, I'd say unlikely, but a welcome addition. As long as he has a Resetti color swap lol.
 

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Yeah, the only reason I thought Bandana Dee is because Sakurai also made the Kirby series, and that's where his fame started. Personally, I'd rather have many more characters than Bandana Dee.

This is kinda random, but seeing as the Pikmin series lacks items, what do you think about a Bulbmin as an item? A short range throwing item that would bite your opponent? Just thought it'd be a cool item idea.

EDIT: Bandana Dee is the fourth player character from the upcoming Kirby game. Basically, it's a Waddle Dee wearing a bandana.
 

Big-Cat

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Looking at that, Muddy Mole could work, as well. He's very nostalgic, and his game was actually made by Miyamoto. That, and there really isn't a puzle game rep yet.

I'm also starting to think that the possibility of Bandana Waddle Dee is becoming more and more likely due to the upcoming Kirby game. Not entirely sure, though. Any input from you guys on this?
If you really must look for characters based on representation, then I suggest choosing Lip over Muddy Mole. Aside from the fact that she's been demanded for quite some time, her series is the PUZZLE League series so if you wanted to represent the puzzle games with a character, there's her.

That being said, there's nothing wrong with both of them existing in the game. Since we're on the subject, I'll post my Muddy Mole special moves set.
[COLLAPSE="Moveset"]B: Iron Ball
Pulls out an iron ball. This has the weight of a barrel or crate and can be picked up by anyone. Muddy Mole is unique with him being able to press B on the item as well and enter a grab state similar to the one in his game. Press forward and you throw the item higher than you would a barrel. Press backward and you do a suplex that turns the ball into an anti-air with an arc. This is ideal for edgeguarding.

Side B: Dig Forward
Digs a hole in the ground and digs forward. Press B while going forward to to launch out. This is to counter projectiles while being on the offensive. While digging forward, you have the ability to time when you come out. There is a predefined max range and pressing B while digging forward will have you jump out and you can go into an aerial or double jump right from there. If you can predict your opponent, use this to counter his/her dodge rolling patterns.

Down B: Dig - This is the center of Muddle Mole's playstyle.
Dig a whole in the ground, but this will not work on platforms where you can go under (like Battlefield's platforms). With this hole, you have the following options:

Down B where the hole is and you can go into the hole. From there, you can use this to dodge ground attacks and projectiles, but this state is vulnerable to aerial attacks (think something like Link's DAir). You also have access to a stronger version of your Up B that goes straight up and comes up quick, but a well spaced and active aerial will stuff it.

You can set up to two holes at any given time. If you try to dig a third one, the first one will disappear.

Despite the defensive uses, this is a strong zoning tool. If your opponent walks over the hole, he'll fall into a pitfall like state. This is key as this is where you start your combos or perform K.O. moves. If the opponent jumps over it, a lettuce ball will shoot out and hit the opponent for minimum knockback.

If you Down B in the air, Muddle Mole goes into a downward drill state that keeps going until he lands and makes a new hole. If you do this next an opponent in the air, you'll enter a command grab state with both of you drilling into the ground. Both versions of this attack goes through transparent platforms like the aforementioned BF platforms.

If you're already in the hole, you can do Side B and have a significantly reduced startup time on it.

Up B:
Mole Drill
Works essentially like Wario's Up B.
[/COLLAPSE]
 

Artsy Omni

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Waddle Dee isn't relevant. He's a common "enemy" who is sometimes utilized as playable because there simply aren't any other relevant Kirby characters.

Bandana Dee is just a glorified Waddle Dee. He's got very low chances for SSB. XP
 

army man

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Yeah, the only reason I thought Bandana Dee is because Sakurai also made the Kirby series, and that's where his fame started. Personally, I'd rather have many more characters than Bandana Dee.

This is kinda random, but seeing as the Pikmin series lacks items, what do you think about a Bulbmin as an item? A short range throwing item that would bite your opponent? Just thought it'd be a cool item idea.

EDIT: Bandana Dee is the fourth player character from the upcoming Kirby game. Basically, it's a Waddle Dee wearing a bandana.
so maybe a little like the mother olimar looking thing.
 
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