No Bull****! PART II: Pepto-Bismol (MK BANNED) PLUS Mid-Tier Side Tourney

[infiniteV115]

Don't do it Ally.
Or if you do, don't participate

 

[Snow Shard]

I will be attending this. I don't think my pal Red X will be, but hopefully I can find some other interested friends from Oakville.

 

[infiniteV115]

Bring as many friends from Oakville as you can.
Even a few strangers if need be.

 

[Snow Shard]

Well, no. That makes sense. Game and watch mains are hard to come by. Before me, there was Cyan. Then me, then Culex, but he doesn't play much. Now there's really just me, and a couple of others who like messing around with him.

And if you have questions you'd like to ask about GaW, just pm me. I can help you out to the best of my knowledge.

Alright thanks man. I'll be at this tournament, so I can learn first hand from you. I've watched alotta Vinnie and other GaWs, but I've never used game and watch at a tournament yet, so I haven't come across any significant problems with him.

 

[Dan-Da-Man]

I wonder what region I'm even considered to be in.. Oakville is so close to Hamilton; like 15-20min, haha.

If I don't get dragged into that $5 thing Crux, I'll MM you for 5 anyway.
Down for some ggs

 

[Iliad]

lets make it more interesting, if i lose once ill give you each 5 bucks, and i will write HAMILTON on my biceps and take a picture. but if i beat all of you you each give me 5 bucks, and can never ever say hamilton is better than me ever again even if i get 3 stocked by you in the future you still cant say it, sounds fair to me

great now just decide what order i face you in

im sayin phiddle, then raidos, then iliad, then sauc3, then meek

We decided it'd prolly go by PR. So

Raidos, Phidle, Iliad, Sauc3, Meek...

Or we'll just send sauc3 or meek in right away to get us all 5 bucks. Just sayin.

Also...

 

[pidgezero_one]

LOOOL. god damn this is making me want to attend kinda

do it

 

[Patches]

Raidos < phiddle?


Also @ snow shard. If there's any immediate questions you have right now. Feel free to PM me.

 

[zhao_guang]

cruxis goin on legend status

i might hit this up, depends on school and ****. we'll see, hopefully!

 

[Cruxis]

why send in sauc3 and meek right away? why would you want to eliminate your best right away :S

anyway im sayin we should do this before singles starts just in case any of us meet in brackets
first 3 matches Bo3 and last 2 Bo5

now im hyppppped


@ DDM sure, 5 MM im up for it

@ Ally if u do come dont eveeennn think about DQing me bro LOL i aint tin man

also no matter what happens i still love u guys

 

[infiniteV115]

Unless you guys beat him. Then you're all *******s

 

[sauc3]

i still havn't confirmed ... no mk is kind of a turn off for me

 

[Cruxis]

you can use MK in the hamilton vs me battle

ill probably have mid tiers again too you did real well last time

 

[sauc3]

you can use MK in the hamilton vs me battle

ill probably have mid tiers again too you did real well last time

i dont wanna use him, id rather fight against mks, cuz then i know i'm playing peoples best, not just their secondaries that they havn't put any work into (I'm refering to mk mains btw)

i definately wouldn't run my own Olimar or Wario banned tourneys just cuz i dont like the matchup or feel the characters are broken, i wouldn't feel accomplished at all if I placed well.

 

[Cruxis]

except at this rate its looking like MK is gonna be banned after Apex, so train up the secondaries anyway

 

[AllyKnight]

I'm sure player can agreed on whatever they want. TEAM METAKNIGHT

 

[Cruxis]

ally i know in your heart you hate MK

look inside yourself elliot, you are more than what you have become. you must take your place in the circle of life.

remember who you are.

 

[AllyKnight]

Do mid tiers.

 

[Gichan]

MK banned tournies do make sense. And we have a few MK mains in our scene that would be fully affected by this; sauc3, cmedu, jmo, mprime, redx, shard. Am I missing anyone else?

He's definitely ****ing broken and at least it gives a chance for people to breathe since they have a chance at placing well such as Peachy did last time.

Regardless, this is more of a fun tournament anyways since other PR panelists don't want to count this, for good reasons though.

 

[sauc3]

MK banned tournies do make sense. And we have a few MK mains in our scene that would be fully affected by this; sauc3, cmedu, jmo, mprime, redx, shard. Am I missing anyone else?

He's definitely ****ing broken and at least it gives a chance for people to breathe since they have a chance at placing well such as Peachy did last time.

Regardless, this is more of a fun tournament anyways since other PR panelists don't want to count this, for good reasons though.

mk being broken is up for debate, and I'm not convinced when cruxis complains about him since he lost to a yoshi and wario last tourney (i believe?), so clearly mk is not the problem, and same goes for a lot of other people who lose and blame only mk and give no credit where credit is due.

there are more mk mains than any other type of main in our scene, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, no? and tailoring a game towards the minority is what makes no sense to me.

if its for fun then sure, but personally i wouldn't feel good about beating jmo or cmedu or w/e if their best character is banned.

and if the ban goes through, the results will change for now but to what avail? what does it prove if peachy can place well with all the mk mains out of the mix, or if an mk main placed worse with their secondaries? Of course he's gunna beat mk mains who havn't put nearly as much effort into their secondaries and as peachy has put into his character. All your doing is forcing a majority of our scene to start over again with a worse character. Im thinkin if the ban goes through it's going to hurt the scene more than help it, since several players would lose interest or quit if they had to start over. People need to stop *****ing and learn the matchup

ends rant.

Also, ftr Gi, i didn't use mk to get my placing last tourney, i only played mk 1 match in singles and lost (to X11 or w/e, the really good zss)

 

[R e d X]

Decent chance of me coming to this, but we'll see. Mid-tiers would be pretty cool, I'd be totally down for that. Teaming with Shard if I come.

 

[Cruxis]

mk being broken is up for debate, and I'm not convinced when cruxis complains about him since he lost to a yoshi and wario last tourney (i believe?), so clearly mk is not the problem, and same goes for a lot of other people who lose and blame only mk and give no credit where credit is due.

there are more mk mains than any other type of main in our scene, and the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, no? and tailoring a game towards the minority is what makes no sense to me.

if its for fun then sure, but personally i wouldn't feel good about beating jmo or cmedu or w/e if their best character is banned.

and if the ban goes through, the results will change for now but to what avail? what does it prove if peachy can place well with all the mk mains out of the mix, or if an mk main placed worse with their secondaries? Of course he's gunna beat mk mains who havn't put nearly as much effort into their secondaries and as peachy has put into his character. All your doing is forcing a majority of our scene to start over again with a worse character. Im thinkin if the ban goes through it's going to hurt the scene more than help it, since several players would lose interest or quit if they had to start over. People need to stop *****ing and learn the matchup

ends rant.

Also, ftr Gi, i didn't use mk to get my placing last tourney, i only played mk 1 match in singles and lost (to X11 or w/e, the really good zss)

it doesnt exactly work when you use an example for me when i was clearly having an off day, as im sure you and everyone else have before as well. and it also doesnt work when i faced the same yoshi again in a $20 MM after and won. i could argue to look at the results of my MK ban tournament, where i placed second, only losing to Holy because he knows the Snake matchup probably better than anyone else in the world.

im getting tired of the "learn the matchup" argument. we know the matchup. it doesnt change the fact that once MK is in the air, its done. MK has far too many options, definitely the quickest and most unpunishable character by far. not to mention on CP stages, anybody who likes to CP brinstar or RC can have a pocket MK pulled out on them and its done, MK wins.

and the fact of the matter is half the people in our scene who "main" MK only switched to MK after getting sick of being gayed by him. Joe, cmedu, holy, even ally all switched to MK because they were sick of dealing with him./
even meek now is pocketing an MK, tin man as well. in simple terms, people are only picking up MK because its easiest to win with him. its clear that MK is the easiest character to learn and to use. dont act like soo much effort is put by players into MK, really, there isnt. MK doesnt have a steep learning curve.

you argue that it isnt fair for players to have to switch mains if MK is banned, we can argue it isnt fair that players are allowed to use MK in the first place. the only reason MK wasnt banned that year ago during the poll is because at the time the majority of the BBR mained him, and the BBR made the decision. he is on a whole nother level compared to the rest of the roster, and the results clearly show it. whether its a local tourney ore a national tourney usually half the top 10 are MK.

http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=123523

just a little example there of MKs domindance. what seems more logical, that all these people dont know the matchup, or that MK is simply too dominant?

a victory by a MK is usually due to the fact that its MK, not because of the players skill.

 

[sauc3]

a victory by a MK is usually due to the fact that its MK, not because of the players skill.

i could not disagree with this statement more, but alas i am sleepy and am not mentally awake enough to address your other points, until tomorrow then

i have much to say, don't worry alex i will address each and every point you made :D

 

[Peachy-Desu]

Excuse any ramblings... It's like 3:30am and I'm tired. XD

Well... as a Peach main I have a bias view of MK. Peach can bust her *** racking damage, playing the MU 'right' and campy but let's face it. When was the last time Peach mains have ever 'dominated' or even won a set against a MK without a Hail Mary? (in her case a bomb) This kind of example can probably be said about the majority of the cast. MK uses half the amount of effort (unless you call mashing B and spamming shuttle loop effort) than the opponent if they are not another MK. (For the record I've lost to MKs who weren't great... thanks to the wonderful MU Peach has with him lol.)

While yes we can try to learn a 'MU' but it's rather difficult when MK has an option for everything you have. If you also pay attention to MUs they are in MKs favor to begin with... some more than others. So by the logic "learn the match up" it means when we do it's still not in our favor and for various reasons. (varies upon character) Now when you have a character who is dominating MUs around the roster it's not fair to say "learn the match up" as when we have, the MK player will more or likely know it too thus our knowledge of the MU may help a bit, but as previously stated the overall CHARACTER MU takes place and once again MK will probably win.

If we take a look at other games, characters with outstanding performances are usually over played, and then some patch comes in to 'nerf' the character or other characters recieve buffs... or both options are used. In brawl this is not an option, so the only way to fix the issue is via ban, or ignore the issue and keep him around. As others have said MK was a majority back then and people loved him. (free money!) As time moved on people started to dislike him, people quit because of him and people switched to the bat because they thought they had to, to win. I'd think it's safe to say (i could be wrong) that MK has a minority supporting him now (this doesn't mean just because someone uses him they support him) and the majority is now wanting him banned.

People may quit when and IF MK is banned, but people have quit before because he was playable.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

I was going to post my opinion, but I can basically just say I agree with Peachy here.

Then again I'm a bad Dedede main and obviously biased and obviously blaming my tournament performance on the bat. Obviously.

 

[AvariceX]

Just thought I'd point out Kurtis that you are using "majority" and "minority" incorrectly. Meta Knight mains are not the majority. There may be more Meta Knight mains than any other single character (largely for reasons Cruxis already explained), but there are more people who don't main Meta Knight than people who do. It is actually the majority who would benefit from the ban.

That is unless in the time I've been gone 20+ people in the scene have switched to maining MK (can't say I'd blame them).

 

[infiniteV115]

And the poll results were
75.91% pro-ban
25.09% anti-ban

Banning MK caters to quite a large majority, assuming that this poll represents (to a fairly accurately degree) the opinion of the entire population that is affected by the Unity Ruleset.

Edit: Cruxis, change V115 (me) from a maybe to a yes. I'll be there.

 

[Dan-Da-Man]

I personally enjoy fighting MK, but people gotta realize that in almost every fighting game some characters are better than others, some are very good at taking out others, some are very bad, and in some cases a character is dominant enough that to moderate the meta-game they get banned. It's kind of pointless discussing it any further at this point. Just wait to see what happens and try to have ggs @ this tourney

 

[Patches]

I really hope I can go to this. I'm ****ing hyped.

You guys might get a taste of my

 

[fUddO]

If MK is banned or not, this tournament series is awesome and we shouldn't let it end.

 

[1PokeMastr]

Wii + Tv confirmed.

 

[Darkshadow96]

yo hamilton, yall think youre big and bad so come at me

i want hamilton to come to this tourney and i will face every single member of hamilton in a row from worst to best like a ladder type of thing until i lose, IF i lose

if one of you can manage to beat me ill give each member of hamilton 5 bucks, and if i win then u guys cant talk shit ever again lool


you guys down???

come at me

LOL. Man this really hypes me to come now.

 

[DarkISDA]

And the poll results were
75.91% pro-ban
25.09% anti-ban

Banning MK caters to quite a large majority, assuming that this poll represents (to a fairly accurately degree) the opinion of the entire population that is affected by the Unity Ruleset.

Edit: Cruxis, change V115 (me) from a maybe to a yes. I'll be there.

where did you saw the results?

 

[1PokeMastr]

I think the results would be listed in the original thread, Not, sure, they might just have only told V because he's that amazing.
As for banning Meta, DDM, You and I both enjoy playing against him, I know that each fighting game has a dominating force, but even then, they do have their bad MU's, Like in SSB64, everyone pretty much has a 0 - death on everyone, which makes it balanced, kind of.

Even in Melee, Fox still had hindering Match Ups.
Meta has at least.. a 60:40 in his Favour? Not to mention he has two over dominating stages that work well with him and the player can only be rid of one, forcing them to go to a stage that's set the Mu easily in his favour even more. If we take off Meta, Diddy becomes first, let's see, bad Mu's.. Peach, Falco, Marth might be even. Then you have Snake who has Diddy, Falco (even I guess), Marth, DeDeDe, maybe a few others, then you have Falco, who has, Marth, Kirby, Fox( Even ), Snake.

Hmm.. They all have Bad Mu's..
Metaknight, um, even a ****** knows this one.

Not to mention, all you see are Mete dittos in grand finals, except for Places, Like Halifax where they're dominated by a Yoshi, when is the last time you haven't seen a Metaknight in Grand Finals at out tournies? Don't say 'Metaknight banned' etc.

I'm sure lots of People want to see Kirby vs Dk in Grand Finals.

 

[Cyan_]

And the poll results were
75.91% pro-ban
25.09% anti-ban

Banning MK caters to quite a large majority, assuming that this poll represents (to a fairly accurately degree) the opinion of the entire population that is affected by the Unity Ruleset.

Edit: Cruxis, change V115 (me) from a maybe to a yes. I'll be there.

but that adds up to 101%

 

[pidgezero_one]

holy **** ness is mid tier? i dont evne know my own character

 

[R e d X]

holy **** ness is mid tier? i dont evne know my own character

Lol what did you think he was?

 

[Warchamp7]

I might come to this, I'll have to bail early enough to be back home by 8 though for another game tournament.

I'll try and figure out transit **** tonight. Are you and Snow bussing it there R e d?

 

[R e d X]

I'll try and figure out transit **** tonight. Are you and Snow bussing it there R e d?

Provided I go it'll either be GO Train then streetcar or just driving there lol.

 

[Warchamp7]

Yeah, I don't like trying to figure out the TTC to get places, generally a pain in the *** for me.