[Official SSB4 Discussion] --- Nintendo announces 2 new Smash games!

[NeverFiniteX]

Random Time!

This whole partner thing has really got me thinking about my golden sun idea. Sure we can have assist trophies, but this really limits the amount of characters that can be represented in the game and from what I expect for this next game (hopefully on an HD Nintendo console) we will be able to add complex things like this.

For those of you who have played golden sun, consider the Djinni. There are four different elements that correspond to each Djinn.

No two creature of the same type has the same ability, how can we capture the essence of their abilites (importance for that matter) by just cramming all of them into one Trophy?

Take the concept of the Pokeball, we can implement hundreds of different types of pokemon at random by using one item. Imagine we can do the same using the 'Stars' of Golden Sun (I imagine that they are roughly the same size)

Consider this same concept for other characters that are deserving within a popular game (with many characters). It might get pretty creative to figuring out how to apply this concept to other titles by which many characters are involved (FE, Mother, Paper Mario, and more)

This is why you make "Neo Wave Dashing," a feature that adds very little for most players and will turn them off to the game.

Not to repeat my observed pattern, but Chu, sometimes you are clueless. Kuma and I talked about this in response to whether or not WD should even be in the game. It was honestly a creative way to settle a dispute. It would please me very much to see you take care to what you say, because hey, you never know.
This wouldn't even be an issue if smash gave some support to the competative community (or just Wii's online better overall). Not everyone wants to have a 4P smash party with items (not all of us have that luxury either). Casual and Competative should be interchangeable to satisfy both parties.

Melee did this by adding stages that moved, making the normal fight much deeper.

Lol@ U using 'depth' examples from your own perspective, limited at as well. What happened to the dodging mechanics introduced in melee (air dodging,sidestepping, etc)? What did that do for the game?

Partner Stuff

However; Independence is what makes the Partner's as they are, as Mario and them work together to attack at similar timings

Why do we want to overdo the partner gimmick? When you guys brought up Bowser's partner stuff I thought you were refering to him using their wands for different moves not the characters themselves. What should we gain from this overuse? Perhaps if they came out of nowhere to use moves like some of the capcom vs. fighting games. I think that was your intent, just want to clarify.

Last note- I'd rather have P.Mario over Geno, Jr, or Toad any day. His gimmick is right up there with G&W with a few unique traits thrown in for his favor.

 

[Pieman0920]

I'm with KumaOso in that they shouldn't act independant. My idea is basically that they work with Mario in the specials only. Outside of that, they just follow Mario around, much like the Pikmin follow Olimar. Thus while it may not be incredibly inovative, there is still a difference, and that difference isn't pottentially game breaking.

EDIT: On assumes that the Djinni wouldn't be all in one trophy. Instead, its more likely that Isaac (or the new GS main who looks to be the same type as Isaac) only has Venus Dijinni incorporated into certain attacks, and that would be about it. An AT would also likely be a character rather than those little guys.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Of course the character of the AT (assuming Golden Sun gets one) would probably be either Felix, New guy, but I'd rather see Garet, mainly because he'd be a unique assist.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Random Time

This is actually...Pretty good. Liking the idea. Do think on it more.

Of course the character of the AT (assuming Golden Sun gets one) would probably be either Felix, New guy, but I'd rather see Garet, mainly because he'd be a unique assist.

Garet or Ivan = Sure I'd take that as an Assist.

 

[Arcadenik]

Oh boy.... all these discussions about Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario... do they need to have partners to make for an unique character? Wouldn't it be a little too complicated or confusing, not to mention a programmer's nightmare? I am glad I went with someone simple (albeit, a less popular choice) like Toad who doesn't need a partner to make an unique character. Also, Toad is pretty much one of my top five favorite Mario characters.

And besides, if I wanted a new team-based character, I would give Diddy Kong Dixie Kong as a team partner where they could be a cross between Ice Climbers (two-man team) and Zelda / Sheik (changing characters via tagging) a la Donkey Kong Country 2. Well, that or make a Dixie Kong / Kiddy Kong team from Donkey Kong Country 3 if people fear changing Diddy Kong's moveset. I don't care either way, I just want to play as Dixie Kong so I wouldn't really mind her as a solo character. She is probably my second favorite Kong after Donkey Kong simply because I love her hair spin move (and she could be like Medusa of Inhumans where she fights with her hair, really, that's what Dixie Kong is best known for).

About the Djinn, I love the idea. I have been thinking about this for over a year now. Basically my idea involved something similar to the Dragoon. You collect Djinn (you can have up to 4 Djinn) and you automatically summon... one of the Summons from the Golden Sun series to attack just like what Pokeball Pokemon do. Like Dragoon parts and Smash Balls, one type of Djinn can only appear at a time - meaning if a Venus Djinni apppears, you can expect to see more Venus Djinn appearing until someone summons a Summon. After that, another Djinni type (Mars, Mercury, or Jupiter) will appear and so on. So you will never have one Venus, two Mars and one Jupiter, for example. You summon a Summon when you collect two, three, or four of the same Djinni type. But you don't know when you will or will not summon a Summon until you pick up the second or third Djinni (if you already have three Djinn and nothing happened, you will know you will summon when you pick up the fourth Djinni).

To make things harder for you to summon a Summon, the Djinn are always running and jumping around the stage. Sometimes a Djinni might attack everyone but immediately after it attacks (or when it stops running and jumping around), it will be on the standby mode (it sits and does nothing for a few seconds), it is your chance to run and pick it up before someone else does (and before the Djinni starts moving around or attacking again).

I hope that wasn't confusing to you guys.

 

[Big-Cat]

Toise explained part of Madden's success, but Wii Sports is a good indicator of how accessibility effects the market place. Sports games have been hard, but then Wii Sports took it, made it easier, and blew the market away. Smash did something similar, but on a much smaller scale.

Toise made a good post above yours in how accessibility and depth relate. What I recommend is to avoid looking at Street Fighter and other fighting games as a way to add depth (save Smash of course). Street Fighter 2 is a good mold as it was very successful, but the problem is that the other games fell flat right after, so making a squeal and making changes is much harder. You can avoid the faults of later Street Fighter games, but making new strides is more important.

Why are you thinking making the game easier was why people bought the stuff? It's never so simple where one factor is what makes something appealing. Most people bought because of the motion controls, not because it was easy or whatever you're thinking.

Another thing, you say following SF games and 2D fighters fell flat because they were "too hard", but you apparently haven't considered what happened in the mid 90s. In the mid 90's, 3D fighters like Tekken were becoming very popular, taking away the popularity of the 2D fighter. Also, games that had just 2D graphics were not well received by most because they were considered inferior because they weren't 3D.

The problem is that you are looking though competitive lenses. This is why you make "Neo Wave Dashing," a feature that adds very little for most players and will turn them off to the game. To do what you want, you have to ignore every other fighting game that has ever existed and consider them failures. From there, you can make an idea that breaks the convention.

I swear, it's like you're only looking at my posts for what is advantageous to you and you ignore anything that doesn't. NWD was made up as an official means of wavedashing where the execution was a lot easier to pull off. I don't know how the hell a quick dash forward or backwards (I've been thinking just backwards) is going to turn off new players.

Yes. As I mentioned before, the game is too hard to grasp, and most everyone who would enjoy Smash has bought it. The next step for the series is to make a way for new players to get into it who would have avoided the last three games.

We've been down this road before, but who have you met that says the game is hard to grasp? I know kids as young as 4 years old who play Brawl with no major problems. Except in SSE or to unlock a character, I'm never called on to help through with something. If you're telling me that you know someone who struggles through something a four year old can grasp, I fear for humanity's future.

Anyway, the next step, as you propose it, is actually ambiguous. I know you mean to round up more new players who never play video games, but that's not always the answer. Remember, even Nintendo is about catering to all kinds of gamers. Do you want Smash to a series that just caters to newbies like the Wii X games, or do you want something that appeals to everyone like Mario?

Why do we want to overdo the partner gimmick? When you guys brought up Bowser's partner stuff I thought you were refering to him using their wands for different moves not the characters themselves. What should we gain from this overuse? Perhaps if they came out of nowhere to use moves like some of the capcom vs. fighting games.

Actually, I was going for a Capcom vs. feel with the Koopalings. They would act as "Assists" to Bowser Jr.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Oh boy.... all these discussions about Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario... do they need to have partners to make for an unique character? Wouldn't it be a little too complicated or confusing, not to mention a programmer's nightmare? I am glad I went with someone simple (albeit, a less popular choice) like Toad who doesn't need a partner to make an unique character. Also, Toad is pretty much one of my top five favorite Mario characters.

Somehow I knew you'd shove Toad into this

To answer your question: No, they don't NEED There partners. That was already proven with Diddy Kong, however to be fair, More people expected him to be solo than Paper Mario.

Anyways, I didn't put so much emphasis on the Partners to make it broken on purpose or anything of the sorts. I did so because after playing TTYD So much and basically going through every chapter in a breeze, I've decided that that was the way I feel captures the partner's the best.

The only major problem I see in it is balancing it out for 1v1's, especially If more hitstun is added.

Speaking of Diddy & Dixie...

Dixie/Diddy kong

I fight for my Hair!

 

[NeverFiniteX]

Hoorah for Double Day Posting

EDIT: On assumes that the Djinni wouldn't be all in one trophy. Instead, its more likely that Isaac (or the new GS main who looks to be the same type as Isaac) only has Venus Dijinni incorporated into certain attacks, and that would be about it. An AT would also likely be a character rather than those little guys.

Yeah, I was thinking of characters on a broad spectrum and had forgotten that assist trophies were usually 2<= My intent for this is to include intuitive elements that educates/introduces the player to other games outside of the trophy/sticker setting. I love seeing nostalgic elements in a mash-up like smash, but they have to be implemented rather well, unlike Issac's Trophy: GIANT HAND PUSH!

They can't just be like: Hey all, here I am just to satisfy my lack of being a playable character! Something with depth,

Spoiler

(I can't believe I'm actually saying this: )

requiring thought like Arcadelink's

the Djinn are always running and jumping around the stage. Sometimes a Djinni might attack everyone but immediately after it attacks (or when it stops running and jumping around), it will be on the standby mode (it sits and does nothing for a few seconds), it is your chance to run and pick it up before someone else does (and before the Djinni starts moving around or attacking again).

It seems Arcadelink and I are somewhere together, not quite on the same page, perhaps were both in America, I in Cali and he's in Montana (below -30 over there right now). I am glad that you brought up the mannorisms of these characters, I had forgotten how crucial that was to the gameplay in a pokemonesque sense- Pokemon 'X' Fled from battle!

To answer You and Pieman...
Why? Simply because it happens to match up with the character himself. When playing TTYD, I've noticed that both are rather weak, however acting independent and working in there own way to kill enemies.

I'm a bit "what in the name of...?" about this response. Are you saying that Mario and his partners do their own thing for the good of the battle? (not murder TTK. "Kill[ing] Enemies"? C'mon this is a kids game!). If thats so, then yes I agree with that. I imagine that like the Ice Cimber, your parter follows you around, but unlike them, you can switch between your party (like Paper Mario ingame). If we have it like that, I don't think that this should interfere with P.Mario's core movesets, like shielding or jumping.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

Speaking of independent partenrs...anyone alriht with seeing a summoner-esque fighter who uses his specials to "summon" certain characters to the field who would act independtly (like de-snced nana) expet with a little better AI?

 

[Big-Cat]

It's an interesting concept, but I think we'd have the same problems with the Paper Mario idea. At most, I would go with something Capcom vs. esque, but that's just me.

 

[Pieman0920]

The only way I see a summoning character working is like how Yugi works in JSS/JUS where the characters simply make the attack and don't have any real AI behind them. Giving AI to all of a character's attacks is just silly you know.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I meant creating a separate entity who acts indpendtly for say specials, while the summoner has actual atacks....you know

 

[Big-Cat]

The only way I see a summoning character working is like how Yugi works in JSS/JUS where the characters simply make the attack and don't have any real AI behind them. Giving AI to all of a character's attacks is just silly you know.

This is what I also had in mind for Bowser Jr. Of course, summoning monsters from cards is a heck of a lot easier than summoning Koopalings from out of nowhere.

I gotta agree that giving AI to an additional character is silly; case in point Nana.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

nana is suppossed to have poor AI, it's supposed to discourage you from become de-synced.

It wouldn;t be hard to give it to a character who is supposed to fight that way

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Horah for random gimp jobs with boredom. I think I left the top left a bit empty but yeah.

edit: dangit, I wish I could put the shadow on the bottom of the characters feet :l

 

[Arcadenik]

Hmm... no one are discussing Golden Sun's Djinn ideas.

Anyway, about Paper Mario, I am thinking they would most likely go with the most recent version, meaning Paper Mario could use Pixls instead of partners. It could be more simpler than with partners. I almost find it ironic that I don't support Paper Mario and yet I could come up with a decent (but incomplete) moveset for him, simply because I actually love the Paper Mario series (what I really want is a Paper Mario stage, not Paper Mario as a character).

A: Cudge; a simple pound with a hammer

Running A: Spin Dash; attacks by spinning while running

Side Smash: Spin Smash; twists then swings the hammer around

Up Smash: Hammer Throw; throws a hammer overhead like Snake's up smash

Down Smash: Boomer; places a bomb on the ground like Snake's down smash

Aerial A: Barry; attacks with a spiked barrier similar to Zelda's B

Aerial Down A: Multibounce; falls fast like Toon Link's aerial down and repeatedly stomps on the opponent when you press down A again

Grab: Thoreau; a simple grab that can also be used for tether recovery

B: Ice Smash; charges the hammer like Ike's Eruption and then freezes the opponent by pounding the hammer

Side B: Fleep; harmlessly flips the opponents and projectiles to the opposite direction like Mario's Cape

Up B: Quake Hammer; jumps up while swinging the hammer and then falling down while pounding the hammer much like Kirby's Final Cutter

Down B: Thudley; a simple ground pound like Yoshi's Yoshi Bomb

Final Smash: Mega Mario; transforms into a giant SMB-style Mario who pushes opponents away by walking around

Side Dodge: Tube Form; rolls into a paper tube to dodge like Samus's Morph Ball

Down Dodge: Slim / Paper Form; turns to the side like a paper to dodge

Gliding: Plane Form; folds into a paper plane to glide

Swimming: Boat Form; folds into a paper boat whenever he falls into the water

Up Taunt: Battle Victory; he wags his finger just like when he wins a battle in the original Paper Mario

Side Taunt: Tippi; Tippi flies around Paper Mario, also used as a special taunt where she talks about the opponents like Snake's Codec taunt

Down Taunt: Dottie; he simply shrinks into a tiny pixel and then grows back to normal

 

[Big-Cat]

Remember, Arc, while Smash acts kinda like an advertisement, it does not mean that only the recent stuff is in. Smash is more of a museum than anything else in terms of representation (sans trophies in Brawl). Thus, there's no sense in limiting Paper Mario or anyone else to stuff from their most recent game.

 

[Pieman0920]

One thing I would like to see in regards to Paper Mario is the use of the Pal Pill. While my general idea of how Paper Mario should work is with his partners, if I didn't have that, I would certainly put in the Pal Pill as PM's down special. Heck, even with partners, I'm guessing that the Pal Pill might be able to work as a seperate item, though that may make it so that every character needs a 8-bit version of themselves.

 

[Big Bear]

Better online play, ie tournaments. More game modes. Extended character list..and scrap the stupid final smash..just makes the whole game about getting the orbs.

 

[mars16]

No smash ball, no Pit, Better online play, More trophies, Lots more characters

 

[ScoobyCafe]

Better online play, ie tournaments. More game modes. Extended character list..and scrap the stupid final smash..just makes the whole game about getting the orbs.

No smash ball, no Pit, Better online play, More trophies, Lots more characters

How about remodeling the concept of the Smash Ball and Final Smash, as in relieving the effort one has to use in order to gain said ability. I suggest that each character have their own personal smash ball, something to measure or determine the amount of w/e needed to use Final Smash--a separate percentage gauge--and what a player has to do in order to fill up said gauge.

Stand still, and percentage builds up gradually. Brawl, and percentage stacks up quicker. This is so new, more casual players won't have to work so hard to achieve a Final Smash.

 

[Big-Cat]

How about remodeling the concept of the Smash Ball and Final Smash, as in relieving the effort one has to use in order to gain said ability. I suggest that each character have their own personal smash ball, something to measure or determine the amount of w/e needed to use Final Smash--a separate percentage gauge--and what a player has to do in order to fill up said gauge.

Stand still, and percentage builds up gradually. Brawl, and percentage stacks up quicker. This is so new, more casual players won't have to work so hard to achieve a Final Smash.

I'm trying to remember, since this was from months ago, but weren't you saying something that doing nothing would decrease it (I assuming to prevent turtling)? Anyway, I was a little weary when you said that it builds up gradually since that could make the game even more defensive and characters like Peach could have balancing issues, but I suppose, if done right, the price would be worth it.

Anyway, for what you have in mind, does this include taking damage as well?

I'm surprised to see how many people don't care for the smash ball.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

I said standing still doing nothing would decrease it, but thinking about it through the eyes of newer, casual players, I'm not really supportive of the idea anymore. I don't want it to be too arduous for them, so gradually stacking percentage over time would lessen, if not eliminate that worry.

As for taking damage as a means to build percentage, from a competitive standpoint, I wouldn't want that.

 

[Big-Cat]

I said standing still doing nothing would decrease it, but thinking about it through the eyes of newer, casual players, I'm not really supportive of the idea anymore. I don't want it to be too arduous for them, so gradually stacking percentage over time would lessen, if not eliminate that worry.

As for taking damage as a means to build percentage, from a competitive standpoint, I wouldn't want that.

I guess that makes sense. Heck, now that I think about it, I'd be ticked off when I need my Final Smash and I'm short because I had to play keep away.

For taking damage, with your idea in, this isn't necessary so I agree.

 

[LSDX]

How this thread is still alive is beyond me...

I miss you all ='w'=

 

[Pieman0920]

This thread (or at least the spirit of it) will last until SSB4 comes out. Then it shall die...and be reborn like a Phoenix as the SSB5 prediction thread. :V

 

[Thirdkoopa]

This thread (or at least the spirit of it) will last until SSB4 comes out. Then it shall die...and be reborn like a Phoenix as the SSB5 prediction thread. :V

Suggestion, not prediction.

But yeah, however I think he's more surprised at this in general because we've discussed in the past few months with all our druggies other people...

...Just about everything on characters.

 

[Big-Cat]

Suggestion, not prediction.

But yeah, however I think he's more surprised at this in general because we've discussed in the past few months with all our druggies other people...

...Just about everything on characters.

Just wait til Other M comes out. The Ridley debates will come in at full swing, and with new stuff this time.

 

[Pieman0920]

Other M likely will produce less Ridley discussion and more discussion on other characters besides him. (Possibly Adam will be the front runner)

 

[Big-Cat]

Other M likely will produce less Ridley discussion and more discussion on other characters besides him. (Possibly Adam will be the front runner)

Nah, the front runner will be MBD. Ridley debates will still happen because people are going to argue which Metroid character will get in under the assumption that we can only get one more Metroid character or something.

 

[Dsull]

Actually, Toon Link is probably the only true clone left in Smash unless you count Ganondorf. Falco's got enough to where he's the Ken to Fox's Ryu while Wolf is Akuma. Alternatively, he's Luigi, Fox is Mario, and Wolf is Wario (weird analogy but I'll stick with it).

Anyway, why do you want Krystal? Are you a furry?! Just kidding, I'd love to see Krystal in, and I've been like that since I first played Starfox Adventures.

As for Paper Mario, I'm neutral on him. I'd rather see Toad, Bowser Jr., and maybe Rosalina before Paper Mario.

meh those 3 characters will always be somewhat similar. Wario isnt even like mario/luigi but i get your drift. Atleast in Brawl and hopefully in Super Smash Brothers Riot (i just made that up its nothing i heard) theyre spread out enough to be noticeably different.

And yes i am a furry got a problem with that? Krystal is hot lol.
..........anyway in all seriousness she'd be very unique compared to the others because of that staff. Even compared to the sword wielders, she'd be very distinct because most of her attacks originate from the staff not her herself.

And i dont see a Toad happening. Bowser Jr. perhaps, since he's pretty unique now, Rosalina doesnt have any movesets i can think of other than little star freaks that follow her around like she's a God or something.

 

[Big-Cat]

I have nothing against furries; in fact, I like anthro stuff in good taste. It's just a common argument that Krystal shouldn't get in because some furries will rule 34 her to death more so than in the past. Without a doubt, she'd be the most unique without a doubt amongst the space anthros.

I wouldn't knock Toad off. He's one of the few Mario icons that hasn't been put in yet. Rosalina would require creativity, but I see stuff involving Lumas and Starbits. BTW, Rosalina might be something akin to a goddess if her not aging and her size in the ending are any indication.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Anyway, why do you want Krystal? Are you a furry?! Just kidding, I'd love to see Krystal in, and I've been like that since I first played Starfox Adventures.

You know what's really funny? I only "Supported" Krystal and Wolf after playing Assault. Not 64, and not Adventures. It's really funny because for Krystal, she has the most minor plot of all the plot's she's been in.

Without a doubt without a doubt

Wat?

I wouldn't knock Toad off.

Agreed about Toad. Seriously, they can create movesets out of scratch. Not that it means they will, but Toad surely has enough workable. Just seeing a character as more unique doesn't work. People saw Krystal more unique than Wolf, yet who got in first between the two? There's also other things that everyone has to factor between the two.

...Not that I really care much for any of them. Mario's pretty fine as is as opposed to other series with supporting characters, but some costumes would be very welcomed. Namely, Mr. L and Dr. Mario. For mario representation, I just want to see a Paper Mario stage mainly...

...Very badly.

 

[Dsull]

Not saying it WOULDNT happen, i just said i doubt it because he's one of Peach's moves for one thing, and aside from Mario Kart or the new Mario Bros Wii, he doesnt have any games to get his attacks from.

Then again, they put Rob in here, so anythings possible (how the heck did they turn the old ROB into what he is in Brawl?)

EDIT: Actually i could see them putting Rosalina in for the simple fact they lack female characters. bet thats why she was made to begin with. Only reason Peach is playable in other games than Mario Kart is because Samus for the longest time was their only non-damsel in distress female character.
Also, on that note of Peach, only attack she has that came from another game is her FSmash attacks (SMRPG weapons), floating (SMB2), and pulling up turnips (same game). I never played Super Princess Peach or whatever it was called because that was aimed at girls not guys lol so i dont know if anything came from that.

EDIT2: What did you mean by

It's just a common argument that Krystal shouldn't get in because some furries will rule 34 her to death more so than in the past

Kuma?

EDIT3: Nevermind im a ******. I shoulda known what that meant being a furry rofl

 

[NeverFiniteX]

TTK

The way you talk about character involvements some times is akin to the way I considered Ridely, as if having elements present in a game will satisfy the crave for them overall. If we put it that way, then having Toad on standby underneath Peach's dress would be enough.


Aside for maybe KRool, Ridley, or Goroh, (MAYBE Dixie or Jr) I'm not sure that we should touch new characters from the Major Vet Section, they seem to be complete. *Glosses over characters

Lets see here:

Toon Link has much to do with the older styles of game play, mixed to make a stange unique hybrid of both new and old elements.
As far as I can assume, Rare's discontinued parternship with Nintendo rattled things up for Donkey Kong in the 6th Gen era, thus we missed out on the much requested Diddy Kong.
King Dedede was intended to be involved in Melee, but was neglected (and unless I'm mistaken, 64 also)

With close to 40 characters and at maximum 16 spots for newcomers, the objective of that should be to introduce major characters. Most of those spots should be reserved for major protagonists from nintendo titles or those that 'ideally' complete the series. I believe you said it yourself (although I was talking about third party) that we shouldn't withhold spots from other deserving titles. I'm not even sure if we should even expect new characters from Mother or FE (even Wario for that matter) because of how limited the spots are.
Sad Right? (*A tear in his eye as he looks @ P.Mario)

Toad Stuff

Agreed about Toad. Seriously, they can create movesets out of scratch.

I don't reject the idea of having toad outright, I'm just not sure that making a movesets out of scratch is enough or even the proper way to look at this. Smash doesn't quite make characters out of scratch without the notion that they are ideally popular (C.Falcon) or benefitial to nintendo overall (G&W). Heck, even Rosalina has established her position by her star subjects, making for a useful gimmick.

Spoiler

What should we have the stars as playable characters too? How many Yoshis and Puffs do we need?

What do we have for Toad besides being playable in a few games?

http://video.adultswim.com/robot-chicken/im-the-best.html

Lol, now that I think about it, the Kart thing might make for a decent AT.

Try not to get into that sort of mentallity "JUST PUT HIM IN! WE'LL WORRY ABOUT THE TECHNICAL STUFF LATER!!!" Remember what happened to Gannondorf, Wolf, and Mewtwo? Shall I mention Sonic? Consider how much you might 'rage' if toad's done wrong. We do have that possibility, judging by how even iconic figures like Sonic, can get screwed.

 

[Dsull]

agreed on the sonic thing i dont know how a lightning fast hedgehog who's main feat is being able to run and spin around, turned into an aerial fighter. He SUCKS on the ground, imo.

 

[ShinoandtheBallonFighter]

I'm just gonna say nothing wrong with the 'Dorf.


And The whole "Krystal has a Staff" hardly make sher unique. In the mechanics of Smash were everything, in essence, is a blunt object (there is not sharp cutting anywhere) the staff would just be an uber-long sword giving Krystal all of th eproperties of a sword weilder, with a few of Pit's dual sword animations thrown in there...all with broken range an ddisjointed priority.

IMO the staff is a hinderance not a boon.

 

[ScoobyCafe]

And The whole "Krystal has a Staff" hardly make sher unique. In the mechanics of Smash were everything, in essence, is a blunt object (there is not sharp cutting anywhere) the staff would just be an uber-long sword giving Krystal all of th eproperties of a sword weilder, with a few of Pit's dual sword animations thrown in there...all with broken range an ddisjointed priority.

IMO the staff is a hinderance not a boon.

This, and I honestly don't see her using her staff if she was chosen to be playable, considering how little Sakurai knows about Star Fox. He'd probably give her a blaster with different properties, a shine, etc.

Kinda don't want to see her using this point of view. On the other hand, I do think she'd benefit the roster if added.

Don't know about you guys, but I'm one who thinks Melee's roster is more interesting than Brawl's roster. What? Sure, Melee has clones and Brawl has more characters, I know, but there was a certain lure to those characters while those in Brawl are, for the most part, uninteresting. Dr. Mario, Roy, Pichu, etc.--weird, but interesting picks for characters; clones, but added a distinct flare to the game, kinda like shotos in SF.

I'm cool with popular characters and all, but I want to see more of that--more out of left field picks (Rosalina, Paper Mario, etc). And if they're clones or luigi-esque, I'd be fine with that depending on which character ends up being a clone.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

And to think I thought we wouldn't have anything to spice up this thread so soon.

Actually i could see them putting Rosalina in for the simple fact they lack female characters.

That's a horrible reason. There's other females around too + Toad and Jr are more important IF We even have a Mario Newcomer. Speaking of which...

More toad stuff!

Actually you know, Wolf's moveset is pretty good. It's just so hard and tricky to be actually good with. I'm a fan of his moveset yet I can't get it right for jack Regardless, the point is that they CAN Make a moveset.

I've stated my opinions on Toad and Bowser Jr and how I don't believe either of them should be in. For the most part, even If we get 16 newcomers, I agree with you. Introduce some new franchises and introduce characters who would truly make a series complete, or ones that have an ignored amount of focus (FALCON...PUNCH) As for Mother and Fire Emblem: I'm almost positive with the amount of backlash on Roy removed, and the fact It's changed every game says something. Mother...Is questionable. Everyone here who isn't arcadenik has already said that. I've even said that on multiple occasions.

Now, onto Toad: This is for everyone btw, not just you. And so Arcadenik won't have to sound like a broken tape record.
-Not a hated/indifferented Mario character (Most people indifferent Jr. It's hard to compare him to the Koopalings just to start as shown previously)
-Actually has been noticed by Sakurai before (Jr could have; But granted we don't know)
-Toad is an iconic figure to Mario and one who has stayed there long too
-Toad has had a role in...Ok. 2 less games than Bowser Jr 1 If you want to count Wario's Woods.

With all that in mind, I'd have to say that If Toad gets more appearences he's actually important in then Great for him. Continuing on, as I have stated this before and know I'm going to get disagreements:

But personally I see adding to Mario as a questionable possibility. I know It's the biggest series, but it already technically has 7 characters. You all question what for say, a Fourth character would do to Star Fox, yet most people don't question this? Point is: Mario already has all his Major characters.
We have Mario. Mario's Girlfriend/Wife/Something/I forget/Potato. Mario's Brother. The dude who keeps stealing Mario's etc that has a bad habit at being kidnapped. Yoshi; Another one of Mario's sidekicks (Yay yoshi's island), DK Who at least appears in Spin-Offs as much as Bowser Jr and Toad, and Wario, who like DK Is really off doing his own thing.

And honestly, "IT'S RECENT IT CAN ADVERTISE" Yeah, A game that's already going to be freakishly popular because It's Mario? If It already sells so well, it doesn't need that much back-up from Smash unlike other franchises. Why should Wario (Random example) Or anyone else not have that kind of Back-Up? It doesn't sell well? I thought that was the point of advertising.

Now, once you take away the pretty sales charts which Sakurai has shown time and time again he's ignored, you still have the fact that it has It's important characters. Bowser Jr's the...I was the main antagonist once character? Toad's the...I only starred in two games where I was only an optional character you didn't even have to play as and has never had a big role outside of that?

So when you bring things down to it's simple form, you realize that they aren't a zillion tons likely than other characters "Just because they're mario characters" Which If I hear something like that for Rosalina, or I hear "MARIO BIG EIGHT" Or some other Fan-term or something, I may have to get that special drug that Arc/Chu/Toise/X Have.

Granted, Toad or Bowser Jr can still get in If they have more actual roles before Smash 4, but I'm still on the middle with this. I have yet to hear something still that "Blows my mind" On either side.

tl;dr: I agree with you on most things on your post.

krystal stuff

10$ Says I'm the only person who actually wanted Wolf and Krystal for there actual characters rather than being unique

edit for Cafe:

Don't know about you guys, but I'm one who thinks Melee's roster is more interesting than Brawl's roster. What? Sure, Melee has clones and Brawl has more characters, I know, but there was a certain lure to those characters while those in Brawl are, for the most part, uninteresting. Dr. Mario, Roy, Pichu, etc.--weird, but interesting picks for characters; clones, but added a distinct flare to the game, kinda like shotos in SF.

I'm cool with popular characters and all, but I want to see more of that--more out of left field picks (Rosalina, Paper Mario, etc). And if they're clones or luigi-esque, I'd be fine with that depending on which character ends up being a clone.

I think the reason we all view Brawl as so easy to see is because most of them were at a forum who speculated, thus being able to narrow choices down.

As for Left-Fielders: I'm fine with them as long as they're important or add something. Like we may already have Mario, but Paper Mario could be added to help Mario RPG's and a unique moveset, so It's not a complete loss or anything like that.

But yeah. I have a feeling I'll know every character added to Smash 4 at this rate.

 

[Pieman0920]

Sakurai doesn't ignore sales charts Koopa. The more popular (ie better selling) series get more characters, and the characters from the series are the more popular ones. There are some contradictions, but that doesn't change things as a whole. =/