Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread

[Excellence]

Aggressive oli is pretty lolworthy, because he has no approach, really. Every single one will have him eating usmash or dsmash.

That's not true. We were just discussing which Olimar is harder to deal with and it's usually the offensive Olimar players that do best.

All you've got to do is powershield her attacks and grab her. I really don't think it's that hard. We do, after all, have the advantage on range.

 

[jibbyjaont]

Is it good if you approach Olimar diagonally? After he throws a f-smash, he looks open fo a fair, nair, or side B.

 

[Excellence]

Is it good if you approach Olimar diagonally? After he throws a f-smash, he looks open fo a fair, nair, or side B.

As long as you don't get predictable, you should be fine. However, if you find yourself becoming predictable, I'd stop because you can take a lot of damage from his Pikmin Spear (Up Special).

 

[noradseven]

Okay, Im new here because I play this game causally but tons of my friends play it hardcore, I have alot of exp against SOS's Olimar, and man is this matchup stupid. Powershield grab with Oli is too **** good and pretty easy at that with ZSS.

edit: Its calling me a n00b, ha.
ZSS has been my main since day 2 when when I dropped marth, but I can play everyone in the cast at a low-tourney level, with the exception of a few people *cough* Peach/IC *cough*. Basically Im an engineer in college and spend ALL my free time playing this or Beatmania, or other fighters.


Stuff that you might actually care about:
Against an Olimar not used to fighting ZSS, you will win hands down items+zoning, plus huge aireal pressure even with Oli's down B can mess a guy up.

Armor pieces destroy Olimar use them, while you still can but that will proably only give you a free 50% damage, possible a free kill if they know what they are doing

Against an Olimar that knows that it should just block everything you do and just spam throw pikmen and power shield grab/( downsmash for the running A), its a bit more trickey, the entire game turns into range spammy fest, ZSS using more B than normal, the way I fight is by zoning with a healthy mix back short hop B and f-B praying for a trip, and A jabbing the pikmen off, and repeat, this will be the majority of your game until you are in the danger zone +90%

The most important part of fighting Oli is watching his pikmen like mad, color wise
*whites destroy your health you must kill them, once you are above 130% ignore the fella's because they are now useless.
*Purples, are your chance for a riskier approach either from the air, or my favorite grab (ha your grab got outranged).
*Red's really can't do much to you, but you really dont' have any good appoaches on them just stay back and keep zoning.
*Yellows, suck due to the long amount of time they stay out, DO NOT APPROACH, but don't worry more zoning. If their are no yellows on the field however you are more free to get in Oli's face, and jump around him. :D
*Blues are interesting especially in the danger zone, most Olimar's abuse the blue pikmen for grabbing every time and well they should because they are awesome. However if you can predict it you can beat it. A well timed side step, punish works well, or just running and grabbing Oli first (his grab is faster and better) but he doesn't expect you to grab, and you are pretty sure he is so grab him and go for it.


More notes:
*Dashing A is a great attack against Olimar its unpublishable if you space it right unless he powershields.
*Don't roll dodge.
*f-tilt has enough hitstun to be safe outside unless powershield.
*down smash will destroy Olimar if he plays aggressiv(which he shouldn't be).
*hanging on the edge and doing a charge B is sadly effective. *sigh*
*down air beats everything except yellows and purples
*use f-toss on Olimar, especially near edges.
*Oli's downsmash is not safe, assuming that you crossedup(which you should of) and he can't grab you, punish it.
*Pretend its Castlevania, aka shorthop forward(neutral air/u-air only), shorthop back B/f-B, repeat.
*If he predicts/ powershields, you lose.
*Playing aggressive is sucide for both sides.
*Olimar players will fastfall+ down B/ dodge the daylights out of you so don't expect to get huge aireal raves on him, hehe mixing him up with a quick shorthop/fastfall n-air/u-air, followed up by a u-tilt/ d-smash on the ground seems to be the trick.

Despite all the things I mentioned that you can do to Olimar I put this match at 55:45 in Olimar's favor, but I wouldn't be surprised to see it shift either which way. I don't play him with ZSS enough.

On counterpicks: gahh I hate stage picks.
The game mostly on the first map, because you can pick ranbow cruise/ any level with too many platforms, and Oli can pick battlefield/yoshi's , I personally would ban yoshi's here and pray that it doesn't land on battlefield first, momentum is important and with knowledge if it does he can't pick it again.

 

[ph00tbag]

For the record, Norad's really good at this game. He's also crazy good at dittos.

 

[noradseven]

For the record, Norad's really good at this game. He's also crazy good at dittos.

SOS's Olimar is really good too.

Ohh and thanks for showing me that AA cancel grab, didn't know the first A came out in 1 frame, pretty neat to throw out every once in a while, but you I still say you do it way to much.

For clarification and repetion, in case you skimmed my last post.

Seriously this is important in some matchups I don't know how many ZSS's in matches like this I see doing over B while moving forward, it gets you killed.

*Pretend its Castlevania, aka shorthop forward(neutral air/u-air only), shorthop back B/f-B, repeat.

As long as you don't get predictable, you should be fine. However, if you find yourself becoming predictable, I'd stop because you can take a lot of damage from his Pikmin Spear (Up Special).

I don't like approaching due to yellows, but SOS tried up special on me alot until he realized that I could just bait an up special all day, and punish him when he did it, in very much the same way ZSS can bait->punish MK's up special.

Ohh I forgot to mention alot of Oli's really get confused by 2B->6(press button), great for a grab attempt punish , and something I have been forgetting myself *makes note*

 

[jibbyjaont]

I don't like approaching due to yellows...

If you watch his pikmin, I think it would be easy to know when to approach and when not to.

 

[noradseven]

If you watch his pikmin, I think it would be easy to know when to approach and when not to.

Yes I mentioned that but you can't STAY in close when he has yellows, because otherwise yeah if he doesn't have a yellow in his next 2 sometimes 3 slots depends on current position you can get one free rush down.

 

[Garde]

Just for clarification, if you guys aren't familiar with the numpad notation, 2B, 6B refers to down+B, then forward+B. If you look at a numpad and see where the numbers are positioned, that's the position on the control stick that you would input, assuming you're facing right (this is notation used on SRK for almost all 2d fighters, facing right is the default player one position in most fighting games).

For example, in Street Fighter 2, 623P is a Shoryuken for Ken/Ryu/Akuma and 236P is a Hadouken.

 

[noradseven]

Just for clarification, if you guys aren't familiar with the numpad notation, 2B, 6B refers to down+B, then forward+B. If you look at a numpad and see where the numbers are positioned, that's the position on the control stick that you would input, assuming you're facing right (this is notation used on SRK for almost all 2d fighters, facing right is the default player one position in most fighting games).

For example, in Street Fighter 2, 623P is a Shoryuken for Ken/Ryu/Akuma and 236P is a Hadouken.

Yeah but for clarification I meant to activate press forward B during the down B, so that you angle your spiking kick forwards so that they can't tech on the side of the level. Sorry bout the confusion.

Heh I come from the SRK community so no surprises there.

 

[Garde]

A lot of my friends irl are from the SRK community or derivatives of it, and thus they kick the crap out of me in most traditional 2d fighters.

EDIT: And actually, that's what I meant by down+B then forward+B, but I guess I should've clarified, too.

 

[noradseven]

Also I forgot to mention the ZSS-Olimar match is the only match I have ever almost timed out in, on a consistent basis so be patient.

A lot of my friends irl are from the SRK community or derivatives of it, and thus they kick the crap out of me in most traditional 2d fighters.

EDIT: And actually, that's what I meant by down+B then forward+B, but I guess I should've clarified, too.

Yeah I have really been made fun of for some of my habits from other fighters.

Friend: "Norad what are you doing jumping around wiffing normals, you can't build meter in this game."

Also other fighters are what make me laugh when people wanted MK banned. One game MvC2 nuff said.

 

[Garde]

Yes, MvC2 has some ridiculously broken characters... Storm, Magneto, Sentinel...

Akuma from original ST also comes to mind. And honestly, MK feels more like Vega from ST, he's pretty much braindead easy and has great pokes/priority. Sounds like they're pretty similar to me.

 

[cba]

Magneto......IS MK...
'nuff said.

 

[ph00tbag]

Ohh and thanks for showing me that AA cancel grab, didn't know the first A came out in 1 frame, pretty neat to throw out every once in a while, but you I still say you do it way to much.

I used to be better about mixing up the timing, which would prevent powershields, and was really difficult to punish, but since I was doing that so much, everyone in Chapel Hill gave up on predicting it, and just lets the third hit go and tries to DI out of the subsequent dash attack.

 

[DeliciousCake]

Standard notation doesn't quite work properly with Brawl.

 

[noradseven]

Magneto......IS MK...
'nuff said.

Mag was #3. Plus marvel was about bull**** teams, and yes there were 10-0 matchups.

Plus the point was he isn't banned either.

 

[Garde]

Standard notation doesn't quite work properly with Brawl.

I agree, which is why I don't use it for Brawl. The fact that the game reads 25 different directional inputs (not including analog sensitivity) instead of a the 9 digital inputs on a joystick, it doesn't match up particularly well with a numpad. However, I was merely clarifying what Norad meant.

 

[asob4]

you guys strayed hella off topic

 

[Adapt]

you guys strayed hella off topic

that's pretty standard around here... instead of a chat room we seem to pick a random topic every so often to discuss something. It will get back on track in another 5-10 posts or so

 

[cba]

Mag was #3. Plus marvel was about bull**** teams, and yes there were 10-0 matchups.

Plus the point was he isn't banned either.

lol. i never played it competitively.. who was god?

 

[noradseven]

lol. i never played it competitively.. who was god?

God Tier:
#1 was storm (you saw almost zero teams without her)
#2 was sentinal
#3 was mag
#4 was cable

but most of the game was bull**** teams like spiral,sentinal,storm was in my opinion the easiest team ever, but they weren't the best I think the best was team matrix( storm, sentinel, cyclops). I didn't play the game hardcore but I knew people who did.

 

[fkacyan]

That's not true. We were just discussing which Olimar is harder to deal with and it's usually the offensive Olimar players that do best.

All you've got to do is powershield her attacks and grab her. I really don't think it's that hard. We do, after all, have the advantage on range.

Blackwaltz has done better than most Olimars, and he plays defensively.

Unless you think you can beat a one-frame jab, approaching isn't a good option.

 

[noradseven]

Blackwaltz has done better than most Olimars, and he plays defensively.

Unless you think you can beat a one-frame jab, approaching isn't a good option.

Seriously like I said before Olimar must play defensive in this match otherwise ZSS will tear him up with u-tilt, and jab to grab.

 

[asob4]

i'm only afraid of the jabs and armor
nothing else bothers me. spacing isn't too bad
dsmash will ruin her, because we can just edgehog after you waste your second jump and vB to get near the stage
fsmash and dsmash both have straight horizontl knockback, which is bad for tether recoveries, i know this all too well D:

 

[Snakeee]

i'm only afraid of the jabs and armor
nothing else bothers me. spacing isn't too bad
dsmash will ruin her, because we can just edgehog after you waste your second jump and vB to get near the stage
fsmash and dsmash both have straight horizontl knockback, which is bad for tether recoveries, i know this all too well D:

ZSS' recovery is far better than Olimar's. I usually save my down B for when you do grab the edge and I special footstool over his head.

 

[asob4]

that's known >.>
you still have a tether recovery however, and if you get hit with dsmash at the right point, you will be sent downwards horizontally. if you manage to survive you will get edgehogged

 

[cba]

God Tier:
#1 was storm (you saw almost zero teams without her)
#2 was sentinal
#3 was mag
#4 was cable

but most of the game was bull**** teams like spiral,sentinal,storm was in my opinion the easiest team ever, but they weren't the best I think the best was team matrix( storm, sentinel, cyclops). I didn't play the game hardcore but I knew people who did.

Oh....
I like MvC1, i think it was better.
if we get a MvC3 w/ MOAR chars and like TvC it would def own.
We cant count on that for the next 3 years or something.

 

[Snakeee]

that's known >.>
you still have a tether recovery however, and if you get hit with dsmash at the right point, you will be sent downwards horizontally. if you manage to survive you will get edgehogged

I don't like that face -_-. Well, there are still very few decent ZSS players so people are still confused when I even use the down B footstool a lot of the time >_>. That's why I still answer questions assuming the person doesn't know my character. And yeah at high percents that can work, but if I can get somewhat close to Olimar's height I can prevent an edgehog. If I already used the down B, an f-air or up air can usually do the trick. The f-air's two hits can often wait out the opponents invincibility while grabbing the ledge.

 

[sasook]

dsmash will ruin her, because we can just edgehog after you waste your second jump and vB to get near the stage
fsmash and dsmash both have straight horizontl knockback, which is bad for tether recoveries, i know this all too well D:

It's called DI.

 

[Rybaia]

I don't like that face -_-. Well, there are still very few decent ZSS players so people are still confused when I even use the down B footstool a lot of the time >_>. That's why I still answer questions assuming the person doesn't know my character. And yeah at high percents that can work, but if I can get somewhat close to Olimar's height I can prevent an edgehog. If I already used the down B, an f-air or up air can usually do the trick. The f-air's two hits can often wait out the opponents invincibility while grabbing the ledge.

Good point by Snakeee...
Zero Suit Samus can also do a forward B to force the opponent to move away from the edge and than recover wih an Up B or another forward B (if the Zero Suit Samus player have already used the down B).
I've killed a lot of players that stay on the edge, trying to neutralize my recovery, by stage spike or down B/up B spike and I still recover myself afther that.
You can't compare her teather recovery (and her recovery in general) whit Olimar's teather recovery. Oli can jump and use only one time the up B, Zero Suit Samus can jump, use the up B boost, down B and footstool and she can do the teather multiple times.
And if Olimar have not enough "teletubbies" his up B become useless.

Delfino Plaza can be a good counterpick against Olimar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NclJvY-6ndA&feature=channel_page

The pikmin (not blue ones) die into the water, and you can gimp him when the stage starts to move.








Sorry if I made some grammar mistakes u_u

 

[DeliciousCake]

i'm only afraid of the jabs and armor
nothing else bothers me. spacing isn't too bad
dsmash will ruin her, because we can just edgehog after you waste your second jump and vB to get near the stage
fsmash and dsmash both have straight horizontl knockback, which is bad for tether recoveries, i know this all too well D:

Special footstool off of Pikmin, problem solved.

 

[asob4]

oli has WAC though, and is floaty

i still say it's around even
i haven't played faded image in a while but the last time we played (a looooooong time ago) we 3 stocked each other then he won in the last match
but that was super long ago and is irrelevant.

oli can do the same thing, with the fair and all
we can tether hog for the extra frames to protect ourselves, just like you can
so i say it's even
50-50 or 55-45 either way?


and to the *** who said DI, no matter how you DI you're not gonna get sent upwards very much, and fsmash will do the same

 

[noradseven]

i'm only afraid of the jabs and armor
nothing else bothers me. spacing isn't too bad
dsmash will ruin her, because we can just edgehog after you waste your second jump and vB to get near the stage
fsmash and dsmash both have straight horizontl knockback, which is bad for tether recoveries, i know this all too well D:

Uhh you are all right except for the edge guarding part, ZSS can super jump with up B, and a super jump followed by a head tapping down B messe's with you. That and ZSS can reaction over B to survive the horizontal knockback. But yeah your dsmash kills ZSS, if you learn how to dodge that and grab you got half the match, f-smash is only a problem for ZSS with purples and yellows, we can smack though the rest.

But jab's seriously, what about back air(Oli on the ground)/ forward air (if you ever jump ever)

edit: just read snakee's comment's and I remembered I can counterpick stage(foreign concept). normally I just accept whatever the opponent tells me because I don't care, even though I realize it makes a huge effect on the matchup. Also it said exactly what I said about recovering, its surprising how many ZSS players get shocked by those things, even the super jump thing.

 

[asob4]

jabs are scary cause jabs stop our grab D:

whistle ;D lmao


well from the knockback, it's assuming you have to use your vB to get back towards the stage,
oli can do the same to stop knockback as well, tether recoveries ftw ;D lol
so yeah i still say even

 

[noradseven]

jabs are scary cause jabs stop our grab D:

whistle ;D lmao


well from the knockback, it's assuming you have to use your vB to get back towards the stage,
oli can do the same to stop knockback as well, tether recoveries ftw ;D lol
so yeah i still say even

ohh interesting.

I know about the whole whistle thing I was talking about back airing you when you are on the ground(the hitstun is large enough, that a normal shield gives me plenty of time to do whatever I want, and even if you powershield I have just enough time to get out of your stuff(plus it makes for good u-tilt bait), and forward air if for some reason you jump to attack I have no idea why you would do this.

I think its in Oli's favor actually

 

[Snakeee]

Well, I still say ZSS has a pretty strong advantage here. 6/4 at the least

 

[sasook]

and to the *** who said DI, no matter how you DI you're not gonna get sent upwards very much, and fsmash will do the same

Chill out dude, did I insult you? No. Did I say anything offensive? No. If I sounded like a jerk, I apologize. Jeez, some people really need to learn to lighten up.

 

[canthandletheSpeculosity]

I didnt know ZSS can jab through his grab. I dont have much exp. in this matchup. Snakeee do you think you could say the main advantages/disadvantages in this matchup?

 

[knightzy]

well,both can space great,zero suit has flip jump+special footstoll,olimar has whistle,both have teathers,olimars grab is insane,sero suits jab is awsome,both have good aerials,but I think it could come down to 50/50 or who ever is better on the day so yeah.....50/50.