Peach's Frame Data

[hotgarbage]

Fleshed out beamsword data a bit more.... it being skimpy annoyed me . Needless to say the beamsword is best used as a projectile lol. (not that it's useless otherwise)

Woot woot

I don't suppose you know where the invinciblity frames are? :x I know they are most definitly there because I've dodged Final Smashes with Toad before

From what I could tell just looking at the move there are a few after hitlag. The number is very small though.. seeing how moves like the turtle hit her anyways >______>. I don't know the exact numbers though.... and I'd rather not put effort into find that out, as it would be time consuming and I'd rather pull my resources into more immediately useful information . Sorry!

 

[BentoBox]

GlideTossing frame data, gogo!

You're not going anywhere >=[

 

[hotgarbage]

Hotgarbage could you get frame data for Peach Bomber?
The OP only has when it hits.

aerial peach bomber hits on frame 33

grounded peach bomber:
1-23 startup
24-39 hitbox out
40-72 landing lag

peach bomber has 33 frames of landing lag (ouch)

GlideTossing frame data, gogo!

You're not going anywhere >=[

lol. Thanks for the reminder though, I almost forgot to do this! I've been curious of the hit and shield adv for a long time.

 

[Airgemini]

Thanks.
So would aerial or grounded Peach Bomber be better?

What would the landing lag be if it was ledge canceled? Reduced by how much?

 

[hotgarbage]

Thanks.
So would aerial or grounded Peach Bomber be better?

What would the landing lag be if it was ledge canceled? Reduced by how much?

The only difference between the two is startup time, so on paper the grounded is better. In practice though they both have different uses... though I can't really think of a time you'd want to use aerial peach bomber outside of recovery.

Ledge canceled? What exactly do you mean by that?

Also glide tossing info won't come today; it's not very straightforward stuff. I can say that she nets at least a +10 hit advantage though.

 

[Airgemini]

Ledge canceled? What exactly do you mean by that?

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=221291
Under techniques.

 

[hotgarbage]

Ah, well peach is in neutral position when she falls off the stage, so the landing lag would be the time she's on the ground before that.... which would be very insignificant.


EDIT: A bit more about peach bomber landing lag: (this applies to both aerial and grounded)
There are 3 levels of landing lag for this move. If you land it during her "bomber" animation you'll get 33 frames of landing lag. If you land it after that you get 25 frames of landing lag. If you land it near the end of the move you'll get 14 frames of landing lag.

 

[Airgemini]

So ledge cancelling it is worthless????

 

[hotgarbage]

Oh, I meant that the landing lag from the peach bomber would be very insignificant, which is a good thing .

 

[SPYMOFT]

is there some kind of tutorial to learn exactly what all this is and why its good to know it? Cuz right now, I am completely puzzled to what people are talking about. >_>

I want to be enlightened on this Peach topic!

 

[deepseadiva]

I want to be enlightened on this Peach topic!

I don't think there is, but nothing of this really matters.

As a good player you'll know how fast moves are and how much they last - this is just the exact numbers behind everything.

 

[SPYMOFT]

I don't think there is, but nothing of this really matters.

As a good player you'll know how fast moves are and how much they last - this is just the exact numbers behind everything.

but.... i liek numberz =<

 

[Airgemini]

I have decided to unsticky this, I have recieved messages from other Peach users who agree. If you wish to find Peach frame data, you can find it in this thread which will be sticky since Excel's been updating it http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=170664 .

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I strongly disagree with that decision. I feel like frame data should be especially visible and you should be able to respond and discuss it - for people to ask questions, frames are SUCH a basic and important part of the game that it requires special attention. You can't really respond to Excel's thread and talk about frame data, lots of people view it not expecting discussion, and a lot of people who know frame data won't be visiting it to answer questions. I'd like to see who disagrees and their arguments for doing so, because I'd be immensely interested.

I can understand removing the Smash DI sticky completely, but this is extremely different.

 

[deepseadiva]

Well there are two reasons we should keep a sticky:

- on going, popular discussion
- something to be easily seen

Frama data is the second reason, and if we simply include it in another sticky, it fulfills that requirment easily while keeping the board page clean.

And not to say this page isn't dissappearing - discussion should go here and bumped when nessacasary. It's not all that popular, seeing as we only have 9 pages so far.

I'm strongly for keeping this thread unstickied.

 

[hotgarbage]

I'm for keeping it stickied myself (no bias here looool). At least for the time being. And for the reasons Edrees stated really. (frame data is a vital part of the game and peach's character (duh ) and as such it deserves to have a sticky and thus easy access etc etc)

Really though this discussion boils down to whether or not this thread is "important" enough for a sticky, and that could be argued either way though, so eh.

It's worth pointing out though that nearly every character board with frame data has a stickied thread . So you could argue that the general current consensus of mods is that these threads are important enough to warrant a sticky.


Holy junk I'm tired, that probably came out pretty badly xD.



Anyways, in other news comprehensive glide toss data is still in the works :X. Hopefully life will chill out soon so I can finish it up.

 

[EdreesesPieces]

Well there are two reasons we should keep a sticky:

- on going, popular discussion
- something to be easily seen

Frama data is the second reason, and if we simply include it in another sticky, it fulfills that requirment easily while keeping the board page clean.

And not to say this page isn't dissappearing - discussion should go here and bumped when nessacasary. It's not all that popular, seeing as we only have 9 pages so far.

I'm strongly for keeping this thread unstickied.

Well, then why wouldn't we just compile the video thread, the weekly matchup discussion into that thread as well and just have one sticky? Sometimes putting too much information in one place is less organized and accessible than sorting it out a little, and I feel like this is one of those cases. A random person new to peach will see Excels' thread but may miss out on the frame data because its so huge. Or they may be interested in frame data and not know where to look.

 

[deepseadiva]

There would be a definite problem when combining too much info - it gets overwhelming (such as when we discuss merging all the guides).

But the frame data is very static info. It's important, I'm not saying it isn't, but it's not changing enough, or even being discussed enough, to warrant it's own sticky.

Why not have a sticky for the list of how much damage the turnip faces do?

Obviously not, but having a sticky for a simple list like the frame data is in the same vain.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

If we're going to put everything in one giant thread, we'd have to decide on who'd be the owner and how all the seperate threads would fit in

I know it wasn't made by me so it's technically not mine but if the match up thread was put into one big thread and I couldn't change it very easily....well first of all it'd defeat the point of me recieving responsibility over it and it might also complicate thing if someone changed the style on half of the match ups done as we haven't discussed all the character yet

I'm not too fussed about whether this thread is stickied or unstickied. The info is great but I tend to forget the absolute frame data of things when fighting

 

[EdreesesPieces]

But turnips damage is not fundamental to playing Peach. Using her frames and frame advantages is extremely fundamental to the character. I have re stickied the thread...if a lot of people object to this PM me and if I get enough I will take it down again.

 

[Niko_K]

Airgemini you are a joke of a moderator for even considering that this thread does not deserve a sticky.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Airgemini you are a joke of a moderator for even considering that this thread does not deserve a sticky.

...welcome back?

Seriously, that's uncalled for Niko

 

[Niko_K]

I receive a ban and all of a sudden people are "voting" on threads (only mine) to be unstickied? You don't vote for threads to become unstickied, the moderator decides by himself whether or not the thread is sticky worthy, I understand he's new to being a moderator, though this is vital information that is useful to everyone.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

I highly doubt that people are craving for your topics alone to be unstickied just because you recieved a ban. I think the main reason was that airge thought he should un sticky this because the info was already in Excel's guide which is stickied - nothing personal abut you, otherwise people would have been considering Dark's guide to be unstickied because he got banned. Of course, people would be less likely to find the info on frame data which is a problem

Like I said, he's new to the job so he might not be completely confident on which threads should/shouldn't be stickied, hence having Peach's agree with him would have helped him reach a desicion. It's no huge deal, the thread is stickied back now. And I'm sure that your very promising DI guide will be back up once it gets going again. Personally, I don't see a problem with there being lots of stickys but w/e

Now...on a more cheery note. Welcome back

 

[Airgemini]

Gee welcome back Niko!! >.>
I had my reasons, nothing personal against you.
No reason to get upset because it's still a sticky so really none of what you said was called for.

Jebus.

 

[hotgarbage]

Alright; shield adv info for the glidetoss (turnip throw) is done.



Before I get into that though, here's some data on Peach's turnip throws and the impact different turnips have on shield:

normal throw:
26 total
turnip hitbox out on: 8

up throw:
25 total
turnip hitbox out on 11

down throw:
21 total
(the hitbox never has the chance to come out with this one)


Here's the info on each turnip's impact on shield: (the number given is shield hitlag + shield hitstun which = the total time the opponent is stuck in shield)

Point blank smash throw:
Normal: 14
Winking: 16
Dot: 21
Stitch: 35
mr. saturn: 10

Smash throw:
Normal: 9
Winking: 12
Dot: 17
Stitch: 30
Saturn: 9


Point blank normal throw:
Normal: 11
Winking: 16
Dot: 19
Stitch: 33
Saturn: 9

Normal throw:
Normal: 7
Winking: 11
Dot: 15
Stitch: 30
Saturn: 7



Now with that out of the way.....

Shield Advantage info:


Point-blank shield advantages: (note that a hit counts as "point-blank" if the turnip connects on the first frame the hitbox is out. This hit will do more damage and incur more shield stun/lag than a normal hit)

Smash throw point blank:
Normal: -5
Winking: -3
Dot: +2
Stitch: +16
Mr. Saturn: -9

Normal throw point blank:
Normal: -8
Wink: -3
Dot: 0
Stitch: +14
Mr. Saturn: -10


Thrown shield advantages:

These advantages are more complex because the advantage depends on when the traveling turnip hits the opponent's shield. To best illustrate this I captured some images to show when certain advantages would occur on the turnip's flight path.

The pics below illustrate the advantage that would result if the turnip hit a shield on that particular frame.



SMASH THROW:


- Frame 9 of the throw animation
- Frame 1 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: -9
Winking: -6
Dot: -1
Stitch: +12



- Frame 18 of the throw animation
- Frame 10 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: 0
Winking: +3
Dot: +8
Stitch: +21



- Frame 24 of the throw animation
- Frame 16 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: +6
Winking: +9
Dot: +14
Stitch: +27




- Throw animation has just ended
- Frame 19 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: +9
Winking: +12
Dot: +17
Stitch: +30




- Throwing animation has been over for 11 frames
- Frame 30 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: +9
Winking: +12
Dot: +17
Stitch: +30






NORMAL THROW:


- Frame 9 of the throwing animation
- Frame 1 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: -12
Winking: -7
Dot: -3
Stitch: +12


- Frame 20 of the throwing animation
- Frame 12 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: 0
Winking: +4
Dot: +8
Stitch: +23


- Throwing animation has just ended
- Frame 19 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: +7
Winking: +11
Dot: +15
Stitch: +30


- Throwing animation has been over for 13 frames
-Frame 31 of the turnip's throw hitbox being out

Shield advantage:
Normal: +7
Winking: +11
Dot: +15
Stitch: +30






In conclusion..... I'm too tired to write a conclusion . Hitstun info will come.... sometime .

EDIT: However I will say that is appears that a properly spaced normal glide toss (attack c-stick ftw) is the optimal way to go here. This has also shown me that I really need to start paying attention to what turnips I pluck >______>, as a guaranteed grab is always nice to have.

EDITEDIT: stitch face *****

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Ooo pretty

Sorry if I missed it but could you confirm for me that I'm right in thinking that having your shield up and throwing Turnips OoS (or Glide Tossing OoS) adds no extra lag like jumping OoS instead of if you were throwing them normally?

 

[hotgarbage]

^ that's right. You can throw a turnip OoS the same way you can jump OoS. The behind throw is slightly slower though (hitbox out on 11 instead of 8).


Oh, something I forgot to put in the post above:
Frames 1-5 of peach's roll can be interrupted to perform the glide toss. If the glide toss is initiated on frames 1 or 2 the length of the toss will be shorter. If it's initiated on frames 3-5 you'll get the longer one.... I'm not sure if there's any length difference between these though, I'll have to check on that later.

 

[Airgemini]

Nicce stuff!!

For the downward glide toss couldnt you test the hitbox by placing a Bomb in her hand or something?

 

[hotgarbage]

Eh, I'm not sure what using a bomb would reveal (then again maybe I'm not getting you; if that's the case feels free to correct me ).


... now that I think about it might work with Mr. Saturn; perhaps it's small size would allow it's hitbox to come out before it hits the ground? Either way that wouldn't be very useful though.

As far as throwing turnips go the downward glide toss would only be useful for movement... as it is her fastest throw ....and down glide toss -> slap looks pretty cool! But really if it has any use at all it would be very situational .

 

[deepseadiva]

Beamsword neutral A:
hits on frame: 4
duration: 23
shield stun: 1
shield advantage: -14
shield drop advantage: -7

Beamsword tilt:
hits on frame: 9
duration: 41
shield stun: 2
shield advantage: -30
shield drop advantage: -23

Beamsword smash:
hits on frame: 18
duration: 59
shield stun: 4
shield advantage: -37
shield drop advantage: -30

Beamsword info is pretty basic but eh <____>. Also protip: the beamsword smash attack hits people hanging on the ledge 8).

I'm realizing now that you missed the dash attack... ;____;

 

[hotgarbage]

I always forget the dash attack xP

 

[GimR]

Could you check the frame data for when peach throws a turnip downwards while airborne?

 

[hotgarbage]

Sure thing; I'll get it tomorrow.

EDIT: actually I'm not because I forgot and I'm too lazy to turn the wii on. UUPS

EDIT 2:


Peach's aerial turnip dthrow (same for smash throw and normal throw):
duration: 19
hitbox out on frame: 7

 

[deepseadiva]

Sword dash attack...?

;-;

 

[hotgarbage]

Sword dash attack...?

;-;

Only a month late! xP

0-10 startup
11-27 hitbox out
28-45 cooldown

shield advantage: -32


Note that the the hitbox duration is a bit of an estimate.... one or two frames off at most. Regardless it's out for a surprisingly long time, making this one of the better beamsword attacks.

Hm, looks like I forgot to get hitbox info for the other attacks.... I shall have to remedy this.
EDIT: actually the other attack's hitbox's aren't out for long at all; something like 2-5 frames, so I'm not going to bother


EDIT: note to self: get info on how decay effects her fair's safety on shield. (I'm putting this here so I don't forget :V)

 

[hotgarbage]

Ok, briefly how decay effects Peach's fair's safety on shield:

Fresh: standard
Used 1 time: standard
2: standard
3: -2
4: -1
5: -1
6: -1
7: -2
8: -2
9: -2
10: -2

Oh, and this assumes that you're using the fairs consecutively.


Yup! I'll try go more in-depth with this at a later time with different combinations of fair/other move usage, which should be more useful. Also I'm sure you're wondering what's up with the random "-2" when her fair has been used 3 times in a row. It's the result of a random inexplicable difference in shield hitstun between Peach and her opponent. OH BRAWL U SO SILLY~



EDIT: one more thing

Usmash Charge Release: hits on frame 5
Fsmash Charge Release: hits on frame 6
Dsmash Charge Release (lol): hits on frame 4

 

[mountain_tiger]

Charge release? Maybe this is just me being an idiot, but I don't quite get what you mean by that? Do you mean the amount of start-up frames that occur AFTER you've charged the attack? That's what it sounds lke to me. Though when I think of it like that, I can't help but wonder why anyone would charge Peach's DSmash...

 

[hotgarbage]

Charge release? Maybe this is just me being an idiot, but I don't quite get what you mean by that? Do you mean the amount of start-up frames that occur AFTER you've charged the attack? That's what it sounds lke to me.

Yes you're correct. It's how long it takes the attack to come out after you stop charging it and let it fly. No worries, it's not the most intuitive term .

Though when I think of it like that, I can't help but wonder why anyone would charge Peach's DSmash...

That's why I put the "(lol)" there xP.

Peach has the dubious honor of having the only smash in the game that gets worse when you charge it.

 

[GimR]

Sure thing; I'll get it tomorrow.

EDIT: actually I'm not because I forgot and I'm too lazy to turn the wii on. UUPS

EDIT 2:


Peach's aerial turnip dthrow (same for smash throw and normal throw):
duration: 19
hitbox out on frame: 7

Thanks for the help