*Pound* 4:: VGBootCamp Debut! Two days. Plank's sanity remaining: 50%

[Banks]

the biggest diff is pokemon stadium not being neutral. if thats ur problem, then that sucks. but not much else is different unless you LOVE corneria and green greens. and everyone hates them.

 

[pockyD]

well the old rules are still there under general rules: melee:

and the whole stadium off neutral thing is going to have far less of an impact than it looks like on the surface simply because stage striking always gets around the 'least fair' stages anyway

 

[Plairnkk]

Fixed it Pocky, I guess i previewed it earlier and didn't save it.

 

[Plairnkk]

People can go here if they wanna argue and debate and such, though I probably wont keep up with it too much.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=253203&highlight=pound

 

[White_Mike]

I normally say that Wobbling should be legal but I just feel if you're going to ban one then ban all.

Still, the new stage list and settings are probably my favorite of any I've heard so far.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

legalize wobbling

don't get grabbed

 

[Teczer0]

Just registered.

This is gonna be soooooo amazing ^_____^

 

[DJ Nintendo]

Leave Pokemon Stadium as a neutral like it always has been.

 

[Divinokage]

It's too late to argue, you must accept it!

Change won't hurt anyone. Adapt!

Edit: This just proves a point that I had in mind. Humans don't like to change and they want to stay in their comfort zone... Pretty pathetic.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

Play falcon
avenge Isai

 

[Plairnkk]

It's too late to argue, you must accept it!

Change won't hurt anyone. Adapt!

Edit: This just proves a point that I had in mind. Humans don't like to change and they want to stay in their comfort zone... Pretty pathetic.

Yeah, people complain when you change things nonetheless if its for the better entirely (:

 

[derfleurer]

This just proves a point that I had in mind. Humans don't like to change and they want to stay in their comfort zone... Pretty pathetic.

Is that sarcasm or are you just being overly zealous? =p

 

[derfleurer]

Comcast has it's epic moments...

*toast* to my first double-post

 

[derfleurer]

wow...

****

 

[nicaboy]

Well im glad pokemon stadium is not a neutrual except in doubles

 

[Divinokage]

Is that sarcasm or are you just being overly zealous? =p

Did you really ask me that question? I'm probably someone who doesn't know sarcasm exists lol.

 

[stingers]

pokemon stadium isn't neutral??

 

[Lovage]

ehhh this ruleset is godlike for sheik
and sucks for fox LOL. now fox only has one very good stage which is going to be autobanned so all we can counterpick are rainbow cruise...and neutrals which don't have any real fox advantage only personal preference

i guess we'll see what happens

 

[The Irish Mafia]

It's alright for fox, IMO.

I'm gonna start practicing under this ruleset

 

[White_Mike]

Did Kage just call the human species pathetic?

This guy is deff an alien warrior lmfao.

 

[Plairnkk]

ehhh this ruleset is godlike for sheik
and sucks for fox LOL. now fox only has one very good stage which is going to be autobanned so all we can counterpick are rainbow cruise...and neutrals which don't have any real fox advantage only personal preference

i guess we'll see what happens

ROOOOFL@this post on so many levels. sorry lovage, thats just too funny XD

 

[Eggm]

Even as a fox main I'm implementing these rules at my tournament tomorrow. Hopefully if your right lovage more people will start johning about how sheiks the best instead of fox. Which would be a welcome change.

 

[White_Mike]

Even as a fox main I'm implementing these rules at my tournament tomorrow. Hopefully if your right lovage more people will start johning about how sheiks the best instead of fox. Which would be a welcome change.

But not true lol.

 

[PB&J]

fox is the best clearly..please dont start that eggm.. i dont care when people compliain about fox..i think people complain more about icy's,puff, and peach more anyway..or if not them they just complain about a character they suk against or when they lose they say its the character and not the player


oh and if anybody wants to play me in friendlies @ pound 4..im only playing on stadium only..no joke

 

[_umbra_]

let's get rid of yoshi's story too

it's really gay

 

[Mogwai]

Fox and Falco still molest Sheik with this ruleset... Spacies are **** on neutrals, I dunno wtf Lovage is talking about.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Honestly, Plank, just the way you did it looks f'd up and a little shady. I mean doing the poll, then ignoring the results, that really does look bad and might really hurt attendance at the tourney, because it looks capricious and arbitrary. I think people would be annoyed if you implemented this period, they would deal, but now that it happened like this, I think people will be pissed enough to not go.


Now if you say the methodology of the poll was flawed and redo it in a different way (my suggestion tie it to registration and separately get the results of the already registered melee players) that addresses that concern, from a PR standpoint that looks MUCH better.


Personally, it doesn't effect me much, I main marth and his gayest stage is certainly legal. My secondaries are peach, Sheik, and fox, and they all have at least one legal gay stage in the set.


But, from a PR standpoint, rather then tossing "will of the players" out because of a methodology issue (which makes it look like you didn't like the results), do it based on registered players.


Further benefit: If you set an ending date, it will encourage people to register before then.

 

[Plairnkk]

The ending date is set for Jan 1st. Has been for a while.

The poll didn't even have an option of the set I'm using now, and SWF polls are infamously useless due to people who will never show to tournies voting.

This is the most commonly agreed upon ruleset thus far in the back room (not official yet) and at the same time what I agree with. Since there's a lot of international attendance and they're ALREADY adapting to our version of smash (ntsc) I'd rather not make them play ludicrous random levels and lose the tournament that way.

 

[Drephen]

The ending date is set for Jan 1st. Has been for a while.

The poll didn't even have an option of the set I'm using now, and SWF polls are infamously useless due to people who will never show to tournies voting.

This is the most commonly agreed upon ruleset thus far in the back room (not official yet) and at the same time what I agree with. Since there's a lot of international attendance and they're ALREADY adapting to our version of smash (ntsc) I'd rather not make them play ludicrous random levels and lose the tournament that way.

yo plank love ya buddy but.......

if your changing the stages just to accommodate the international players, thats some ****ed up ****

that the same exact thing Ken and Mana did with OC3 and that went awful. No counterpick stages at all and everything switched around for a ****ty falco player that wasnt even good.

Now if you thing this stage set is legit (i dont agree but its your call) then thats fine. Dont change the rules due to the players coming. Its like "OMG M2K hates chaingrabbing, lets ban it to make him happy" No, thats not cool at all.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The ending date is set for Jan 1st. Has been for a while.

No, I meant have an earlier ending date for the poll you would tie registration (that was one of my suggestions).


Having it prior to the end of registration would encourage people to register quickly because they would want a voice in the poll.

The poll didn't even have an option of the set I'm using now, and SWF polls are infamously useless due to people who will never show to tournies voting.

Agreed, but rather then tossing aside the "will of the people" option, from a PR standpoint it's better to instead have a more useful poll, and as I suggested, tieing it to registration (with a mass email to the already registered sent to allow them to take the poll as well) is probably the most efficient option.

This is the most commonly agreed upon ruleset thus far in the back room (not official yet) and at the same time what I agree with. Since there's a lot of international attendance and they're ALREADY adapting to our version of smash (ntsc) I'd rather not make them play ludicrous random levels and lose the tournament that way.

I'm not saying your reasoning isn't sound, I'm taking this from the Public Relations prospective.

Any time you give people a choice, and then take it away, a lot of people get extremely, moreso then if their option just loses. A LOT moreso then if their option just loses. The unfortunate result of this is that this means a signifigant drop in tournament attendance.


Understand, PRing is part of my JOB that I do for a regional organization, I understand what pisses people off and what REALLY pisses people off. This particular way of doing it REALLY pisses people off, and personally I don't mind, but I would like this to be pretty much the biggest melee/brawl tournament ever.

 

[Plairnkk]

@drephen trust me if it was what i believed was right there would only be like 5 stages.

the attendance won't drop because of this, definitely not significantly at least. id say ive gotten about 90% positive feedback 10% negative. people just feel the need to post complaints and continue beating them into the ground. human nature.

 

[Eggm]

I don't think this will hurt attendance at all. Its a pretty **** fair rule set overall.

I was mad about pokemon stadium being a CP till I thought about it like this. If r1 was gonna have stage striking I'm never playing that **** stage r1 anyways. All it does is slightly hurt me because they get a free extra stage ban, but that's hardly a disadvantage lol. What else is everyone butt hurt about? That you can't win a match you shouldn't have cause a random apple exploded into a bomb which hit your opponent into another bomb which killed him, or clap trap eats some one 2 outta the 4 stocks. Only the gayest of the gay stages are now gone lol.

 

[thumbswayup]

As long as wobbling is banned.

 

[hungrybox]

lol i hate wobbling

 

[Eggm]

Wobbling is the worst I hope its banned as well.

 

[adumbrodeus]

the attendance won't drop because of this, definitely not significantly at least. id say ive gotten about 90% positive feedback 10% negative. people just feel the need to post complaints and continue beating them into the ground. human nature.

Sub 10 percent is still quite significant, but if you're not concerned about those people, then I guess that's your prerogative.

Honestly, when hosting an event that people are intending to pay for, it's your job to make them as happy with the event if possible. Obviously some complaints are unreasonable (for example, it's impossible to make multiple stagelists), however the complaint that people's choice was arbitrarily taken away IS quite easy to solve and I'd personally suggest that you make an effort to solve it.


Again, I'm not suggesting a particular stage-set, just a way of solving this that appears fairer to the tournament goers.

 

[-Hoggle-]

It's too late to argue, you must accept it!

Change won't hurt anyone. Adapt!

Edit: This just proves a point that I had in mind. Humans don't like to change and they want to stay in their comfort zone... Pretty pathetic.

Well I do adapt and cope with change by playing on pokemon stadium. The design of the level changes throughout the match. Why don't you follow your own advice. =D

 

[Plairnkk]

10% is a high number, but of these 10% maybe 1% of them will not come because of the changes.

The choice wasn't "arbitrary". Stop acting like there aren't very obvious grounds for my statements. You're acting like I said "Alright guys, FALCO IS BANNED AT POUND 4".

And no, i'm not going to change the rules to appease to a very very small number of players. The entire point is to make the -most- people happy, and if the large majority of people are happy, that's fine with me.

Even if people have little qualms with specific stages being banned or PS being not neutral, almost everyone still agrees this is more competitive and fair. If you're a fox player PS was gonna get stage struck anyway, I don't know why it's so upsetting.

 

[adumbrodeus]

10% is a high number, but of these 10% maybe 1% of them will not come because of the changes.

The choice wasn't "arbitrary". Stop acting like there aren't very obvious grounds for my statements. You're acting like I said "Alright guys, FALCO IS BANNED AT POUND 4".

And no, i'm not going to change the rules to appease to a very very small number of players. The entire point is to make the -most- people happy, and if the large majority of people are happy, that's fine with me.

Even if people have little qualms with specific stages being banned or PS being not neutral, almost everyone still agrees this is more competitive and fair. If you're a fox player PS was gonna get stage struck anyway, I don't know why it's so upsetting.

Understand, this isn't commenting on the RESULT, this is the I'm sorry, from the outside prospective, the way that you did it DID look arbitrary, your choice, then poll, then your choice again. And that's the real sticking point, again from a PR prospective it LOOKS bad. Same decision made using a different method wouldn't have had anywhere near the backlash.



Furthermore, I think you're underestimating the reduction, it's not so much the number of players that were firmly planning on going but said, "no". The bigger consideration is the players that were still deciding and are just gonna say, "f*** it, Plank wasn't concerned with our opinions, the tournament will probably blow anyway." That's the REAL PR concern here.

I mean, it's not lke all smashers or even the majority pretty much ever go to a single tournament, too much goes into going to a regional, so you always have your definites, your probablies, your maybes, your unlikelies, and your nots. Where this would really have an effect is on the probablies to unlikelies, and that's the concern I have.


Of course, you really don't have to be concerned, you're allowed to make moves that hurt PR if you think it's the wrong thing to do. I'm just making a point of saying what is best PR-wise.

 

[Divinokage]

Well I do adapt and cope with change by playing on pokemon stadium. The design of the level changes throughout the match. Why don't you follow your own advice. =D

Lol.. I will. I never really had any troubles playing stadium vs any character, I never ban it.