Project SA Q&A

[n88]

Eh, maybe. I think it's unnecessary at best, though.

I would rather see this used to make characters like Dark Samus, Roy, etc., than used to tweak pre-existing characters.

I know these characters have been made without Project SA, but I think this will make those characters easier to make and more differentiated from the original if this program is used.

EDIT: Actual question here. Will Phoenix Mario be balanced to fit on the roster, or was he just of a demonstration of what this thing can do?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

I'm pretty sure he was just a demonstration, n88.

 

[FrozenHobo]

there's no way in hell PMario was meant to be a playable character in any real roster. dude has a spike that goes through FD's ledge... while he's in the air... no, just a test character.

 

[Roy-G-Biv]

So.
Who wants to be the man who balances Pmario when the program comes out?

 

[shanus]

I'll already have enough on my plate porting all of the B+ changes

 

[FrozenHobo]

**** PMario. he's a test character. make your own mario. >_>

 

[CountKaiser]

Shanus, we're porting brawl+ to plan zero?

Why not just use it for stuff that we don't have codes for, like Jiggs aerial mobility?

 

[shanus]

Shanus, we're porting brawl+ to plan zero?

Why not just use it for stuff that we don't have codes for, like Jiggs aerial mobility?

more efficient than engine codes, so a combo of PZ and B+ codes will get the best results


That, and we can make more elegant solutions to things like murder choke, etc.

 

[grim mouser]

Sounds cool. Will this replace all of the engines?

 

[smashmaniac2008]

Can we make Marths Sword Sheathed when not in use.

 

[shanus]

No, certain things will still be in place. It will be used to rectify the frame speed "idle animation" bugs and hitbox changes as well as more elegant CAM changes (that is, if it uses the syntax I think it does)

Momentum, etc, will all still be retained.

 

[grim mouser]

I'm pumped to see this tested in Brawl+. Jiggly will get to play like she should.

 

[smashmaniac2008]

okay if you mean badly then shut it if you mean well then okay.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Yeah Jiggz just felt a lot better in melee to me. She wasn't overly floaty, and had some kick to her attacks. But her range wasn't too good, and her only "way too strong" move was rest. :D

If only we could give her her ninja headband :'(

 

[shadowtroop]

Give him fireball tossing from Fire Emblem 6, and perhaps some sort of healing move (since he can heal himself in the game when upgraded too), though that may pose some balancing issues to make it work right. Also make him hold the sword with two hands. :D

Use the stale move engine with it, if you use it every 2 seconds, it heals nothing and may even inflict damage on yourself.

 

[shanus]

Yeah Jiggz just felt a lot better in melee to me. She wasn't overly floaty, and had some kick to her attacks. But her range wasn't too good, and her only "way too strong" move was rest. :D

If only we could give her her ninja headband :'(

Heightened aerial mobility goes a long way.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Use the stale move engine with it, if you use it every 2 seconds, it heals nothing and may even inflict damage on yourself.

Stale moves can't go negative <_<. It's a proportional decrease, not a set one.

That and...we've disabled stale moves already.

 

[leafgreen386]

Stale moves can't go negative <_<. It's a proportional decrease, not a set one.

That and...we've disabled stale moves already.

Nah, it can go negative. If you set the increments at large enough quantities, you would end up with an attack with -x% of its former damage (and therefore growth) if you spammed it... which I don't even know what would happen if you managed to do that. It would probably either just do no damage, or it would lock the game.

 

[Almas]

I played around with the code that handles damage for the old 'Bowser Don't Care' code. Early versions had glitches where if 0 or lower damage would be dealt, the Bowser player wouldn't even flinch. Which was different from what I expected. So I'm not sure how healing works.

 

[Werewolf25]

Maybe someday we'll finally see Geno in Brawl. If Square Enix wouldn't let Nintendo do it, maybe we can.

(Don't flame me. This is a long way ahead of us. But some day...)

 

[leafbarrett]

Maybe someday we'll finally see Geno in Brawl. If Square Enix wouldn't let Nintendo do it, maybe we can.

(Don't flame me. This is a long way ahead of us. But some day...)

Some day, anything will be possible. We can all have our dream characters.

 

[shadowtroop]

and also, couldn't we just make a universal "load all character effects before match" to solve the advanced effect sharing problem?

 

[Power Marshall]

Would we need to download anything else before downloading this when it arives? Like Microsoft .net 1.5 or blah?

 

[Plasmakirby1]

would we be able to give a character a chain grab?

 

[smashmaniac2008]

with this ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE MWAH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!! (lol mugen 2)

 

[Yingyay]

My final smash question was quoted but not answered lol. (if its possible to use final smashes without smashballs)

Plus if you can make multiple moves string together once the initial hit connects.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

Can we create hitboxes on a move that has none? i.e. Falcons down taunt

 

[JugaBro]

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been answered, but we'll see.

Now, I know you can add hitboxes, but can you decide the exact hitbox movement...bah, it's kind of hard to explain. I'll give an example. Could you make a moves hitbox act in such a way as Mario's FLUDD, if his fludd was damage giving instead of just a pushing mechanism? I want to know whether:

1) it'd be possible to make his FLUDD's water have damage hitboxes.
2) Whether you could actually make the hitboxes similar to FLUDDs mechanics.
EDIT: Another way to explain #2 is the question whether or not completely custom hitboxes for moves have to be "solid", just appear in a position, then dissapear, w/o actually moving.

 

[cAm8ooo]

1) it'd be possible to make his FLUDD's water have damage hitboxes.

You could already do this. Cape's Dr. Mario build had his FLUDD doing damage.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

yeah, i know this. however, i meant COMPLETELY NEW hitboxes. imma make Falcon's down taunt insane if we can, lmao XD

and FLUDD already hasd hitboxes. . .

 

[Sukai]

Give him fireball tossing from Fire Emblem 6, and perhaps some sort of healing move (since he can heal himself in the game when upgraded too), though that may pose some balancing issues to make it work right. Also make him hold the sword with two hands. :D

I'll make a texture hack for his "Lord" costume.
I wonder if his hair is possible through model hacks....

 

[leafgreen386]

and also, couldn't we just make a universal "load all character effects before match" to solve the advanced effect sharing problem?

Figure out where the game could load that to and you might have something. Currently, there isn't even enough space for an additional character to be loaded at match's start (if you already have 4 players, I mean), much less an additional 35 characters. The reason the 7 player brawl code can work is because the other players play as an alloy, which take up much less data.

would we be able to give a character a chain grab?

We can do this right now... if you can modify the properties of a throw why wouldn't you be able to do it?

My final smash question was quoted but not answered lol. (if its possible to use final smashes without smashballs)

Plus if you can make multiple moves string together once the initial hit connects.

Didn't you read the first post? Final smashes are in a different file. That means any special graphic or motion effects they use are located in that file. The best you could do is give a character hitboxes similar to their FS, and use any effects already present in the character file to make the animation look roughly correct, but you can't completely replicate their FS, at least, probably not for most characters.

The latter is probably possible via some special scripting.

yeah, i know this. however, i meant COMPLETELY NEW hitboxes. imma make Falcon's down taunt insane if we can, lmao XD

...I thought it was already clear that you can do this. This program is capable of creating hitboxes. If you want a hitbox on a taunt, go for it.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

...I thought it was already clear that you can do this. This program is capable of creating hitboxes. If you want a hitbox on a taunt, go for it.

i only heard that we could edit hitboxes. However, that will be excellent, thanks for helping me

 

[KenHitokiri]

Can we make items move according to a player's position and not according to momentum? For example, bring back the red shell?

EDIT: Also, a thought that occurred. If final smash hitboxes and graphics can be manipulated, would it be possible to also change the effect of the hit? I'm thinkin' "Somehow turn Ness Starstorm into say, PSI Rockin' Omega.

EDIT AGAIN: Ok, last question for now, I swear. Can we give characters invincibility frames anytime? Because I have a neat idea for a character who's nigh invincible when moving.

 

[cookieM0Nster]

1: idk

2: yes, i think

3: probably

 

[TheEnigmaLiesBroken]

I just got a message from PW that says, "I'm trying to lay low so I can get some work done on it without having to spend my time answering a ton of questions "

But he did answer the list of questions that I posted last night so I think I'll share them with you kiddies.

1.)
Push effect = wind effect???
As FrozenPopo pointed out above. Would it be possible to give a character a "push" mechanic like Isaac's AT visual. With the coming model hacks and the advancement of this program, I'm already making lists of characters that I'd like to have created, or create myself. Isaac is my absolute top priority, then mewtwo, and I was curious if the "push" effect is universal like the fire effects and such, or is it character specific and unable to be given to just anyone? I can guess that its possibly character specific only to characters like Mario and Squirtle - But then again, would a wind effect accomplish the same thing? Since the wind effect is universal, would it be possible to do it with that instead. And/Or are the wind effect and "push" effect just the same thing

1: Well, the push effect I'd say is pretty much a damage collision bubble without any damage applied to it - unlike a wind effect bubble, this type actually has a slight bit of knockback. Character's like Mario and Squirtle have wind effect bubbles, while Isaac has push bubbles. To answer you question, I believe both are achievable with PSA.

2.)
cross character attacks
I've been thinking, if I were to do a mewtwo mockup, I'd try to get him as close to melee as possible with a few brawl mechanics as well. But since you're saying that its currently not possible to modify certain things about characters, I'm going to ask becauase i'm not 100% sure exactly whats going on with it.

Say I wanted to give him Ness's jump, ZSS's Dsmash, Lucario's Aura Sphere, Zelda's Up special... for starters...

that's currently impossible right? The hotboxes and stuff would remain, im assuiming (that's what it looked like your code said) but he wouldn't do a flip (ness) a downward point (zss), the charge animation (lucario) - unless the character that i chose to modify also had similar animations such as that? In that case, I believe it won't be possible just yet to make a mewtwo-like character until the model hacks are finished.

2: Even if you could copy over animations, it definitely wouldn't look very good at all. Lets say you copied Ness' jump onto Lucario. Lucario's bone structure is spaced moderately far apart, making him taller, with longer limbs. Ness' bone structure is more compressed, as he has a smaller body. Overlaying Ness onto Lucario would cause a very squished Lucario during that animation. The only way you would be able to efficiently create your own animations would be to edit the Motion file of the character (hurry up Pharox! )

3.)
building off number 2
I want to give peach a Falcon Pawnch for laffs. I think a punching animation similar to falcon but with the effect of her Peach boomer instead of the fire falcon would be pretty cool XD (more knockback so it has the pawnch power of course) - Im sure answering 2 will answer 3, but its worth putting it out there for giggles.

3: Lol, yes likewise.

Frikkin sweet >.<

4.)
Movement Additions
Along with being able to create hitboxes, could you modify characters movements during an animation as well? For example, your phoenix mario - when you use his side B, could you make him move slightly forward as well (like... falcon kick)? So not only would it be a triple kick, it'd would be a dashing attack too.

If that's possible, I'd also like to know the if its would be possible to modify gravity during an attack in the air. Say, if the above is possible, make it so that when using the side B attack he slows in his fall (a stall, like using the cape) That way it could be used as a recovery mechanic in the air, like marth's Dancing blade was in melee.

4: Things such as velocity and frame location are all handled as variables - right now I'm trying to decipher the variable scripting and how you can reference to specific parts (like said velocity)

5.)
projectile mechanics
you said that its not possible to modify projectiles, so I just want to know what in the world did you do to get PMario's fireballs to only fall downwards, then move across the ground with the new blast fire animation? that was pretty awesome.

5: Haha, I guess I'm busted That was done using hexing instead of the utility.

Cheater

6.)
attack angles
I'm sure this is silly but i must ask along with making your own hitboxes, can you modity the angle at which the attacks effect the opponents?

6: Yes, it's possible to change the direction that collision bubbles send you.

Of course I knew that this was possible with hexing, but making sure the program can do it too is essential.

7.)
Random question
Do you think you can figure out exactly what gives characters a "Dacus" and reproduce it with other characters? =D

7: Now, I remember reading about what Dacus was, but right now for the life of me I can't remember what it was... If you could clarify?

8.)
Transformations
Have you looked into transformations yet with your project?
If its set into the moveset, i'd liek to know if its character specific, or if you can dictate which character that it will transform into. I think it'd be cool if you could turn from zelda to charizard, then back to zelda, or something insane like that. Could be useful for future ideas.

8: No, I haven't checked into transformations yet, but it would be an interesting field to check out.

9.)
Kirby Hats
Building off number 8, along with the transformations, has anyone tried swallowing Pmario with kirby yet? I'd like to know what happens. I'm sure it'll just be mario's regular fireballs but its worth a shot

I had the idea after I packed up my wii earlier, so I never got around to testing it myself. Do kirby's hats call on whatever is in the mario file? or are all of his attacks from his hats piled into his own Effect file? In that case, would it be possible to recode other characters effect files and give them the ability to have "hat" effects of their own??? I'm not a megaman fan myself, but seriously >.< That's definitely where this is leading. His neutral B can be similar to samus, and his side B can be his "vaccum" where he clones others moves and reproduces them in a shooting motion like samus's missles. (I'd like to see him shooting ivysaur's razor leaves out of his gun) - and since it could be more then just your opponent's B move, instead of only cloning SideB moves, maybe he could clone combinations of moves. Ivysaur's Side B, mario's B, luigi's B, Snake's Side B, bowser's Flame thrower (lol, flamethrower gun) Peach could give him a turnip gun? o-o - the possibilities there are pretty wild.

9: Kirby hats are separate .pac files for Kirby that get loaded for each character on screen - while they most likely draw upon the character's Effect file, it's not likely that it takes the move directly from the other character.

When Pharrox is done with the motion modifier and the model hacks, we'll be able to create our own animations as well as characters custom characters from the information already on the disc :D

I'm not quite sure exactly what this "clone engine" is, but it sounds to me like its going to make us capable of loading multiples of the same character? (modded and unmodded?)

I hope that's what it is. I'm going to catch hell trying to make Isaac from Link without pharrox's engine.



what else was i thinking....

oh yeah, I'd like to remind you all that most characters have many animations that you're probably not thinking about. Like PhoenixMario, they all have individual beamsword animations, homerun bat animations - separate animations for holding and firing Ray-Gun, SuperScope, hot curry animations, and Hammer Animations. I know that's not really anythims special, but its a reminder for those who think that you're limited to only the character's attack patterns that there are other additional animations out there available for manipulation.

Universal Hit Effects - I want to say that these are the universal effects
Fire
Ice
Wind
Slash
Explosion...

well, mainly what your stickers in the SSE give you the ability to modify. though there are some things that are character specific, like lucario's aura sphere.


For Zelda-Sheik / PKMN

I'd personally prefer to see a new custom Down-B attack then make their Down Taunt their transformation button rather then just see some modified originals. >.>
==============


Final bit. I wonder if the B+ guys LeafGreen, Shamus or Almas could clear this up for me. Since phantom said he was going to lay low I'm resisting asking him

In your opinions, do you think it would be possible with PSA to do these things?

Create a Charging attack, like marth's Neutral B, for a character that doesn't have a stalled attack? I'm thinking of creating Isaac from GoldenSun and if its possible, his neutral B move will be "Ragnarok" from the GS games - similar to marth's B in melee except I'll create some hitboxes in the shape of a sword with fire effects to come down onto the enemies with the basis of the longer you hold the button, the more damage it does.

I dont think you can answer this one, but do you think it would be possible to create an attack, like samus, where you charge your lazar then can roll out of it and release it at any time. In that case, I was thinking of bring back Ganondorf's OOT attack where he threw a ball of light >.>

Timed attacks, like wario's farts, do you think PSA will be capable of things like that too. My idea wiht Isaac is that he would have different Down+B attacks, if that is possbible, depending on how long he waits. In goldensun, after every other turn, one of your Djinn "set" itself to you, giving you another attack and a stat change. In Isaac's case, lets say after 30 seconds he would flash one color, but after 1 minute he would flash another, then at 1:30 and at 2:00 - like wario's fart charge - and upon certain time frames, his attack would be different. The strongest being at 2:00 so that you couldn't spam it.

I think that's all for now

 

[JugaBro]

You could already do this. Cape's Dr. Mario build had his FLUDD doing damage.

Well, then to my second question, again. Does anyone know whether these hitboxes are just solid spaces, and can't move during the frames of the move?

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Dark is also universal

 

[leafgreen386]

Universal Hit Effects - I want to say that these are the universal effects
Fire
Ice
Wind
Slash
Explosion...

well, mainly what your stickers in the SSE give you the ability to modify. though there are some things that are character specific, like lucario's aura sphere.

Do you mean universal hit effects or universal animation effects? Because there's a stark difference. If you mean "hit effects" then there's somewhere around 15-20 in the game that can be given to any attack. If you mean "animation effects" then I'm not really sure what is labeled as "universal."

Final bit. I wonder if the B+ guys LeafGreen, Shamus or Almas could clear this up for me. Since phantom said he was going to lay low I'm resisting asking him

In your opinions, do you think it would be possible with PSA to do these things?

Create a Charging attack, like marth's Neutral B, for a character that doesn't have a stalled attack? I'm thinking of creating Isaac from GoldenSun and if its possible, his neutral B move will be "Ragnarok" from the GS games - similar to marth's B in melee except I'll create some hitboxes in the shape of a sword with fire effects to come down onto the enemies with the basis of the longer you hold the button, the more damage it does.

I dont think you can answer this one, but do you think it would be possible to create an attack, like samus, where you charge your lazar then can roll out of it and release it at any time. In that case, I was thinking of bring back Ganondorf's OOT attack where he threw a ball of light >.>

Timed attacks, like wario's farts, do you think PSA will be capable of things like that too. My idea wiht Isaac is that he would have different Down+B attacks, if that is possbible, depending on how long he waits. In goldensun, after every other turn, one of your Djinn "set" itself to you, giving you another attack and a stat change. In Isaac's case, lets say after 30 seconds he would flash one color, but after 1 minute he would flash another, then at 1:30 and at 2:00 - like wario's fart charge - and upon certain time frames, his attack would be different. The strongest being at 2:00 so that you couldn't spam it.

I think that's all for now

First off, it's "Shanus," not "Shamus." Second, I think everything you've mentioned there would be somehow possible with appropriate knowledge of the scripting language. It's really just a matter of figuring out how to do it. If there's already something that resembles what you want to do in the game, then I'm sure it's possible to recreate it on another character.

 

[Shadic]

Yeah, like LG said, people really need to learn the different between attack elements and elemental animations.