Sakurai does not want Smash to be a competitive franchise

[Sandwich]

Look, Mookie! Here come the 4channers.

What's wrong, RDK?
I thought you could handle us "chan***s" all by your self.

Did you ever read the opening post? >_> I suggest you do so. <_<

Oh and unless you didn't know, Brawl is a new game for the new console Wii. Melee is teh old game. New games overshadow old games with... newness and accessibility. And pretty graphics and new characters and stuff.

It had to be said.

 

[RDK]

this
also sage

Are you a complete and utter imbecile? Please add something of intelligence to the debate or GTFO.

 

[Razorsaw]

There's also playing to be challenged. There's fun in taking on a system where the odds exist at varying degrees and it comes down to how hard you try... or sometimes when you just want to see what happens.

That's why people gamble. No matter how good you are at cards, there's always something outside of your control. The point of winning is significant, yes, but I don't think so many people would put themselves in that situation if there weren't some appeal to the wider ride.

I mean, hell, look at Tetris and Pac-man. Eventually your control will collapse, not entirely through fault of your own, and you'll lose. And they're even more famous than Smash Bros. even after twenty years.

 

[M.K]

Did you read the rest of my post? Yes, we are the only Smash fanbse that matters in the long run. The casuals don't show HALF the dedication or loyalty to the game that we show.

Modeling a game aroud a casual, transient audience who will move on in a few years wasn't the best move for Sakurai. He's trying to make Brawl more like Mario Party when it should be more like Street Fighter.

Wow, this is a PRIME example of the arrogance, immaturity, and sickening natures of the competitive community. Instead of grouping together everyone who hasn't attended your silly little tournaments, why don't you take a step back and THANK the man who created the game you worshipped over for seven years. Thinking of yourself as some high society is laughable, you are playing a **** video game, not saving someone's life as a doctor! Get OVER yourself!

 

[Shai Hulud]

More like street fighter?
First it was BRAWL SHOULD BE MOAR LIEK MELEE now it should be more like street fighter?

Go back to shoryuken.

How do we even know sakurai cares about the average tourney***?

And why can't Melee still be THE ****ING GAME if Brawl sucks so bad?

0/10

That's what a lot of us are saying. Melee *should* remain the competitive standard for Smash.

But understand why we are upset. Despite how awesome Melee is, it is not particularly well-balanced. If Sakurai had set out with the mindset of buffing what sucked about Melee instead of nerfing everything that was usable, then we could have ended up with an extremely balanced, highly skillful game that would have created a huge tournament scene and left Melee in the dust.

It's not even hard to figure out how to make such a game. Look at Pichu for a second. Who the hell decided to design Pichu? Luckily he's easy to fix. Make him as fast as Captain Falcon and increase the size of his hitboxes and you have a viable character despite his flaws.

It's the bulls#it philosophy of nerfing anything one can use to gain an advantage that is why we're calling Sakurai a scrub. At E for All you were able to dash-dance and L-cancelling still existed (in a form). There was hit stun and comboes! Apparently Sakurai studied the things people were doing to gain an advantage and DELAYED THE GAME so that those things could be "fixed."

This is not an effective marketing strategy. Don't act like it is. We all know the competitive players are the extreme minority, but that's not the point. Sakurai put in EXTRA DEVELOPMENT TIME specifically to alienate fans, not for profit-motivation, but because of his "everyone is a winner" philosophy. Melee sold what, six million copies? That sure as hell wasn't based on advanced techs. The overwhelming majority of buyers didn't know advanced techs and still don't. Their enjoyment of the game is COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED. The fact that I can do drillshines to JC usmash in no way keeps casual players from playing their FFAs with items on very high. The fact that I can COMBO PEOPLE to death in no way prevents casual players from chucking bobombs at each other and randomly swinging beam swords.

The casual players are Smash fans regardless. Their enjoyment is not affected by the absence or presence of advanced techs because they neither use the advanced techs nor interact significantly (except for a vocal minority of scrubs) with the competitive community. But it is the competitive players and only the competitive players who Sakurai alienates when he pulls some bull**** like REMOVING COMBOES from the game. I don't play with scrubs, and I doubt most of us would enjoy wrecking 4-year olds over the WIFI, so what the f*ck is Sakurai's problem?

What a piece of sh*t, seriously. I f*cking hate Nintendo. Some company that isn't ruled by a scrub mentality needs to just steal/copy Melee's platform engine and put their own characters in it. I really don't give a **** if I'm playing as Star Fox or some character I've never heard of. It's the gameplay that counts.

 

[Sandwich]

Are you a complete and utter imbecile? Please add something of intelligence to the debate or GTFO.

This post made me lol. Really, it did.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

Are you a complete and utter imbecile? Please add something of intelligence to the debate or GTFO.

NO U, Wow, Tourney***s are stupid.

 

[RDK]

The rest of your post was basically reiteration of the basic diatribe because it's flat out disrespectful and wrong. And yes, this is actually a matter of actual disrespect because it deals with matters that aren't subjective and deals with interpersonal relationships.

You have a mistaken view of what matters that speaks only of arrogance, and which ultimately doesn't serve to do much for both the creators who put their time and investment into the franchise.

And I think it is possible to create an enduring fanbase of players that don't play competitively. It exists in EVERY fanbase that isn't built around fighting games.

Did Sakurai respect me and my personal wishes when he made Brawl? No. Why, then, should I turn around and kiss his @ss?

It's obvious Sakurai didn't a flying **** about competitives when he made the atrocity that is Brawl. He could have at least given the 2 sides equal treatment, but he's too much of a scrub king to even acknowledge us as a community.

 

[M.K]

Did Sakurai respect me and my personal wishes when he made Brawl? No. Why, then, should I turn around and kiss his @ss?

It's obvious Sakurai didn't a flying **** about competitives when he made the atrocity that is Brawl. He could have at least given the 2 sides equal treatment, but he's too much of a scrub king to even acknowledge us as a community.

Two Sides? Two Sides? Laughable, you are but a mere pimple on the *** crack that is the Smash Bros. entirety. Well then, maybe everyone who wears purple and plays Smash should get more purple costumes! Maybe those who wear fake noses and dance around should get more stages based around nostril hairs, because, you know, that's EQUAL treatment

 

[Samochan]

He's talking about RDK's post, not the first post ***got.

I do not appreciate being called a *** for no real reason.

Get out, you don't add anything to this thread and are just insulting others. >_>

 

[Sandwich]

Did Sakurai respect me and my personal wishes when he made Brawl? No. Why, then, should I turn around and kiss his @ss?

It's obvious Sakurai didn't a flying **** about competitives when he made the atrocity that is Brawl. He could have at least given the 2 sides equal treatment, but he's too much of a scrub king to even acknowledge us as a community.

And this is the undoing of your argument. Obviously Sakurai does not care to acknowlege us as a community because BRAWL IS NOT A FANSERVICE. He's not going to acknowledge us as a community because we are a forum of 100k. Brawl bought 1.4 MILLION units in it's first week. How is sakurai going to make this game just for 100 thousand people? How would that be an equal treatment?

In reality, I think you're butthurt and simply wanting to ***** about something because you're perfect game is ruined.

Now go play in traffic or vandalize the article ED made on you. Just anywhere but here.

 

[RDK]

Two Sides? Two Sides? Laughable, you are but a mere pimple on the *** crack that is the Smash Bros. entirety. Well then, maybe everyone who wears purple and plays Smash should get more purple costumes! Maybe those who wear fake noses and dance around should get more stages based around nostril hairs, because, you know, that's EQUAL treatment

This all goes back to my original point. Casuals aren't going to be feeling the effects of b@stardized gameplay 5 years down the road. The whole nature of CASUAL play is that it's played CASUALLY. What would it have hurt if Sakurai included a not-so-apparent metagame, like what they did with Melee?

 

[Razorsaw]

Did Sakurai respect me and my personal wishes when he made Brawl? No. Why, then, should I turn around and kiss his @ss?

It's obvious Sakurai didn't a flying **** about competitives when he made the atrocity that is Brawl. He could have at least given the 2 sides equal treatment, but he's too much of a scrub king to even acknowledge us as a community.

You're not a game designer. You're not even a 10th of the group of people he should think about when musing on how to make a video game.

And even then, kissing his *** does not necessarily equal considering where he stands as a game designer, considering the issue, or making an adult decision that pays an ounce of respect to your fandom or your peers.

 

[Ban3]

sakurai cannot please everybody. he can only make one Brawl. he had to chose between the millions of little 6 year olds who dont like pwning or the few competitve players who like pwning. which is better for him personally? making a game who will sastisfy the hardcore competive players? NO a easier game with little or no learning curve would be much more appelling to more people. stop whinning and play melee and maybe one day someone might make the melee ver. 2.00 u wanted.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

I do not appreciate being called a *** for no real reason.

Get out, you don't add anything to this thread and are just insulting others. >_>

Oh hell ****ing no, get the **** off you ***** licking tourney***!

 

[RDK]

And this is the undoing of your argument. Obviously Sakurai does not care to acknowlege us as a community because BRAWL IS NOT A FANSERVICE. He's not going to acknowledge us as a community because we are a forum of 100k. Brawl bought 1.4 MILLION units in it's first week. How is sakurai going to make this game just for 100 thousand people? How would that be an equal treatment?

In reality, I think you're butthurt and simply wanting to ***** about something because you're perfect game is ruined.

Now go play in traffic or vandalize the article ED made on you. Just anywhere but here.

You're the one who's in the wrong place, jack@ss. This is SMASHBOARDS. You're going to run into competitives here.

If you can't stand having your ****ty logic thrown back at you, go back to 4chan where 1 + 1 = 7.

 

[NF Alex]

Am I the only one who thinks SWF should require users to pass some kind of "intelligence test" before allowing them to post?

 

[M.K]

This all goes back to my original point. Casuals aren't going to be feeling the effects of b@stardized gameplay 5 years down the road. The whole nature of CASUAL play is that it's played CASUALLY. What would it have hurt if Sakurai included a not-so-apparent metagame, like what they did with Melee?

Do you honestly believe Sakurai sat down and said "Woah, I'm going to make Melee all strong and glitchy and powerful, but not Brawl, Brawl will be hated by all those competitive people. Mwhahaha. Bring me kittens!"

No.

Casual players are not stupid. They do not run around saying "HAHA! Brawl is more floaty, lol, sucks for you". We still had to get used to it JUST LIKE YOU. The only thing that seperates the two titles now is that WE aren't complaining and crying our ****ing eyes out. We take it how it is, make the best out of it. You know what is STILL there? Melee, go play it. Obviously Brawl isn't going to satisfy you, so go play Melee.

You're the one who's in the wrong place, jack@ss. This is SMASHBOARDS. You're going to run into competitives here.

If you can't stand having your ****ty logic thrown back at you, go back to 4chan where 1 + 1 = 7.

So, you're response to an intelligent post pointing out your flaws is to flame someone immaturely, like a little child crying over spilled milk? Who's the smart one here? If it's you, nobody can tell, you're posts are filled with idiocy, anger, and simple-minded empty threats.

 

[RaptorHawk]

And this is the undoing of your argument. Obviously Sakurai does not care to acknowlege us as a community because BRAWL IS NOT A FANSERVICE. He's not going to acknowledge us as a community because we are a forum of 100k. Brawl bought 1.4 MILLION units in it's first week. How is sakurai going to make this game just for 100 thousand people? How would that be an equal treatment?

In reality, I think you're butthurt and simply wanting to ***** about something because you're perfect game is ruined.

Now go play in traffic or vandalize the article ED made on you. Just anywhere but here.

Wait.......so its perfectly ok for sakurai to not consider us when making the game BUT its ok for him to consider us to TAKE TIME OUT OF DEVELOPMENT to take out advanced techs so that he can then again focus on the other group. **** that. Sakurai ****** us over.

 

[Razorsaw]

You're the one who's in the wrong place, jack@ss. This is SMASHBOARDS. You're going to run into competitives here.

If you can't stand having your ****ty logic thrown back at you, go back to 4chan where 1 + 1 = 7.

I don;t know about him, but I don't want to go against competitive players. I just want the air of superiority and bitterness to go away so people can focus on what they think is fun about all this.

Yes, this is playing with fire, to a degree, but whoever set that fire has nothing to be proud of.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

You're the one who's in the wrong place, jack@ss. This is SMASHBOARDS. You're going to run into competitives here.

If you can't stand having your ****ty logic thrown back at you, go back to 4chan where 1 + 1 = 7.

 

[Razorsaw]

Wait.......so its perfectly ok for sakurai to not consider us when making the game BUT its ok for him to consider us to TAKE TIME OUT OF DEVELOPMENT to take out advanced techs so that he can then again focus on the other group. **** that. Sakurai ****** us over.

I'm pretty sure that programming a game doesn't necessarily work like that.

 

[M.K]

Wait.......so its perfectly ok for sakurai to not consider us when making the game BUT its ok for him to consider us to TAKE TIME OUT OF DEVELOPMENT to take out advanced techs so that he can then again focus on the other group. **** that. Sakurai ****** us over.

Yeah, I'm sure he was TOTALLY aware of the GLITCHES you squeezed out of Melee. Sakurai didn't "****" you over, you ****** yourself over. The "other group" you speak of is the 1.3 million of us enjoying the game for what it is, not complaining about how much the world hates you.

 

[Thino]

The fact that I can do drillshines to JC usmash in no way keeps casual players from playing their FFAs with items on very high. The fact that I can COMBO PEOPLE to death in no way prevents casual players from chucking bobombs at each other and randomly swinging beam swords.

The casual players are Smash fans regardless. Their enjoyment is not affected by the absence or presence of advanced techs because they neither use the advanced techs nor interact significantly (except for a vocal minority of scrubs) with the competitive community. But it is the competitive players and only the competitive players who Sakurai alienates when he pulls some bull**** like REMOVING COMBOES from the game. I don't play with scrubs, and I doubt most of us would enjoy wrecking 4-year olds over the WIFI, so what the f*ck is Sakurai's problem?

What a piece of sh*t, seriously. I f*cking hate Nintendo. Some company that isn't ruled by a scrub mentality needs to just steal/copy Melee's platform engine and put their own characters in it. I really don't give a **** if I'm playing as Star Fox or some character I've never heard of. It's the gameplay that counts.

This all goes back to my original point. Casuals aren't going to be feeling the effects of b@stardized gameplay 5 years down the road. The whole nature of CASUAL play is that it's played CASUALLY. What would it have hurt if Sakurai included a not-so-apparent metagame, like what they did with Melee?

what you're both forgetting is that while you wouldnt play casuals on online play , there are actually some sick minds that would spend their time learning to combo of following the metagame just to wreck the **** out of casuals online , that wouldnt make the game very appealing or ineresting
compared to melee where the interaction between casuals and competitive players was very minimal.

 

[Samochan]

Wait.......so its perfectly ok for sakurai to not consider us when making the game BUT its ok for him to consider us to TAKE TIME OUT OF DEVELOPMENT to take out advanced techs so that he can then again focus on the other group. **** that. Sakurai ****** us over.

Lol QFT

This post wins the thread.

 

[RaptorHawk]

Yeah, I'm sure he was TOTALLY aware of the GLITCHES you squeezed out of Melee. Sakurai didn't "****" you over, you ****** yourself over. The "other group" you speak of is the 1.3 million of us enjoying the game for what it is, not complaining about how much the world hates you.

Did I say he was aware of the glitches in melee? no. He was aware of the competitive aspects of the E4ALL demo. Which HE THEN TOOK THE TIME TO TAKE OUT. He could have left them in and you 1.3 million would have still been enjoying the game for what it is AND the game could have been competitive.

 

[Pink Reaper]

sakurai cannot please everybody. he can only make one Brawl. he had to chose between the millions of little 6 year olds who dont like pwning or the few competitve players who like pwning. which is better for him personally? making a game who will sastisfy the hardcore competive players? NO a easier game with little or no learning curve would be much more appelling to more people. stop whinning and play melee and maybe one day someone might make the melee ver. 2.00 u wanted.

Actually, Sakurai could have pleased everybody. It's not impossible to make a game that is both fun for the masses and deeply competitive. Think about pokemon. It sells more than Smash to people who never even think about it having depth but there are also huge amounts of people who DO know it has that depth and play it competitively. With Brawl Sakurai literally didn't make it competitive on purpose. Thats like a big **** you to everyone who likes depth in their games(and believe it or not, its more than just 100,000 people, there are actually millions of people who like depth in games, but they don't play smash because to them its just a shallow party game. Way to prove them right Sakurai)

 

[sFoster]

This thread is kind of nonsense.

Tournament Brackets are DIRECTLY built into the game.
Obviously they are allowing for a competitive fan base, that is blatant.

Lol how many other games actually have a bracket option built into it?
Think about it..

All his quote said was that he wants the game to be fun for everybody, not just the winner.
Think of it like a drinking game. Even if you lose, you still win.

All that he is saying is that he wants the GAMEPLAY to be fun.
You can still have a competitive foundation underneath that.

I, for one, think this is the best 2D fighting game I've ever come across.

 

[Dhgriff9]

sakurai cannot please everybody. he can only make one Brawl. he had to chose between the millions of little 6 year olds who dont like pwning or the few competitve players who like pwning. which is better for him personally? making a game who will sastisfy the hardcore competive players? NO a easier game with little or no learning curve would be much more appelling to more people. stop whinning and play melee and maybe one day someone might make the melee ver. 2.00 u wanted.

False Dilemma, there was more than just 2 choices. He could have done a bit of both, and the millions of 6 year olds could be happy throwing bombs at each other, and competitive players could have no items matches.

PEOPLE REMEMBER MELEE APPEALED TO BOTH WHY COULDN'T BRAWL, THERE IS MORE THAN 2 CHOICES.

Still that doesn't mean he should have only catered to competitive players as that would kill the series most likely.

 

[RDK]

LOL, fail.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

Lol QFT

This post wins the thread.

 

[M.K]

Actually, Sakurai could have pleased everybody. It's not impossible to make a game that is both fun for the masses and deeply competitive. Think about pokemon. It sells more than Smash to people who never even think about it having depth but there are also huge amounts of people who DO know it has that depth and play it competitively. With Brawl Sakurai literally didn't make it competitive on purpose. Thats like a big **** you to everyone who likes depth in their games(and believe it or not, its more than just 100,000 people, there are actually millions of people who like depth in games, but they don't play smash because to them its just a shallow party game. Way to prove them right Sakurai)

Boohoo. You're Brawl isn't your glitch-fest of neutral stages and no items. I'm sorry you aren't happy.
Meanwhile, the millions of other Brawl players will be ECSTATIC that Sakurai took the time to create Brawl.
You ever think of the soundtrack? The graphics? The cutscenes? Stage Builder? Trophies? Stickers? Coin Launcher? Characters? Stages? Items? Assist Trophies? Subspace?
Yeah, this game is packed with content, and you are complaining?

 

[Linkplayer5678]

LOL, fail.

Yep.

Spoiler

PS3SUX

 

[Shai Hulud]

what you're both forgetting is that while you wouldnt play casuals on online play , there are actually some sick minds that would spend their time learning to combo of following the metagame just to wreck the **** out of casuals online , that wouldnt make the game very appealing or ineresting
compared to melee where the interaction between casuals and competitive players was very minimal.

I think you overestimate the extent to which we would value this kind of "practice." But supposing you are right--so what, this is how every online game has been, ever. You're occasionally going to get your *** kicked. Quit the match and start another one if it hurts your feelings that bad. Or just play with your friends.

It's not a big deal. Nintendo didn't include voice support so it's not like there'd be 6-year-olds getting cussed out by mean old "tourneyf@gs." We don't care about that bulls#it, seriously.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

Hey Shai Hulud, nice sig.

 

[Mismagius]

Hey guys whats going on in this thread? :3

 

[RDK]

Boohoo. You're Brawl isn't your glitch-fest of neutral stages and no items. I'm sorry you aren't happy.
Meanwhile, the millions of other Brawl players will be ECSTATIC that Sakurai took the time to create Brawl.
You ever think of the soundtrack? The graphics? The cutscenes? Stage Builder? Trophies? Stickers? Coin Launcher? Characters? Stages? Items? Assist Trophies? Subspace?
Yeah, this game is packed with content, and you are complaining?

Yes, actually, because I don't care about all that junk. The fact of the matter is that Melee suited both sides just fine. Why couldn't Brawl?

Yep.

Spoiler

PS3SUX

PS3 does suck.

 

[NF Alex]

Linkplayer, I just wanted to thank you for contributing so much to this thread.

this
also sage

Mookie is nice now. :3

He's talking about RDK's post, not the first post ***got.

NO U, Wow, Tourney***s are stupid.

Oh hell ****ing no, get the **** off you ***** licking tourney***!

*image*

Yep.

Spoiler

PS3SUX

Hey Shai Hulud, nice sig.

Again, thank you for the intelligent discussion.

 

[Linkplayer5678]

Hey RDK do you still love Ashley!? :3

 

[PraKirJaq]

I understand that casual gamers are at the core of this game. I understand that we are at most 1%, if even that.

But, it seemed that Sakurai just wanted to purposely punish the more competitive players for having a different view of competition instead of allowing all views to flow into brawl just as Melee did or even the old SSB64. This is the main point many are trying to make. They aren't bashing the fact that casual players still exist; they just want a piece of the cake as well.

Now to some of my own opinions, whether or not you take them seriously doesn't matter to me.

Even though they took out dash dashing and a few other things from the E-For All, I was still okay; but I will say that I really wanted to dashdance with Sonic which was taken away sadly. The only thing that really irks me is the random tripping. This might just be me, but when winning just because someone tripped doesn't seem to be ideal for me; I'd rather lose if the other player was more skilled. And, there are no doubt some casual players that feel the same, it would just be a matter of whether or not they know tripping exists. Once again, as repeated by many tourny-goers, shouldn't skill determine the winner? I mean, if someone ***** you in an FPS such as Team Fortress 2 or COD4, does that mean you just drop the game? Probably not.

Really, SSB64 and SSBM were still quite casual and people could have fun together. On the other hand, when two friends decided to take it to skill, they could, which is what I see as one SSB series's key points: it allows the game to be played how the player wants. Items, smash ball only on high, FFA Snakes, competitively, or Bowser challenges.

And I will say that I don't necessarily dislike but wished he would allow other ideas come in.

Also for the glitches thing, correct me if I'm wrong:
L-Canceling and Short hopping were not glitches; they were present in the old 64 version and the old website had instructions on how to do them; it was known as z-cancelling though.

Wavedashing is more of an exploit of the physics according to some, but if you check the debug mode (via AR) in melee and find something called special landing slide or something of that sort, you'll see that it is the exact same animation of a wavedash. They were aware of wavedashing.

Of course, please offer to correct me. I'd like to know the correct information.