Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Zankoku]

Hey, I'm serious about the answers, from watching this in action many times. Sentries prevent 5-6 damage with their Guardian Shields because of the Mutalisks' bouncing attack, and Stalkers can maximize their punishment of harassing Mutas with Blink. The only problem is that, since they're stuck on the ground, you can't chase the Mutas around and make sure to keep them away, so if you don't want to be forced into containment against persistent Muta harass, you gotta build Phoenixes, which move too quickly for Mutas to escape and can move while firing to minimize the damage they take and choose when to engage.

Just don't fly any into a Fungal Growth.

 

[shanus]

Hey, I'm serious about the answers, from watching this in action many times. Sentries prevent 5-6 damage with their Guardian Shields because of the Mutalisks' bouncing attack, and Stalkers can maximize their punishment of harassing Mutas with Blink. The only problem is that, since they're stuck on the ground, you can't chase the Mutas around and make sure to keep them away, so if you don't want to be forced into containment against persistent Muta harass, you gotta build Phoenixes, which move too quickly for Mutas to escape and can move while firing to minimize the damage they take and choose when to engage.

Just don't fly any into a Fungal Growth.

How do you propose you stop an easy contain on a map like Lost Temple then? A zerg would be dumb as **** if they encountered your stalkers and sentries head on. Its trivial to dance between expo and main back and forth and while your blink stalkers keep up (try and get blink stalkers and pheonix, lol), your sentries and guardian shield do not. This basically requires you to split your force, maintain a persistent eye on your entrance to FF any speedling push, get Pheonix, Blink Stalkers, Zealots, and Sentries off of 2 bases and have enough to defend. If you try and move out, speedlings get up in your grill, and before you know it, zerg has 3 base while you have 2. The circle of creep gets bigger, and now your basically contained. This problem is actually amplified if you go pheonix, as it effectively cuts your ground army production, and while it can try and help to get a few of them, the second he decides to get a corruptor, its GG.

Muta Ling against protoss is *extremely difficult* to beat once it hits mid to late game. It basically requires early aggression by the toss to either prevent early FE or do significant damage against the build to stay in. And with the viability now of early mass roaches (ling roach now is so hard to stop), its even more difficult. Look at the success of PvZ in GSL, its disgusting how 1-sided every match was (I think every ZvP was 2-0'd by the zerg by an overwhelming majority, grantd most were roach pushes). This has been met with fairly clear commentary supporting opinion by Day9, tasteless, artosis, and pretty much the entire SC2 protoss forum, and a bunch of threads of TL. The opinion is out, and the majority supports my point.

 

[Scabe]

*Ooh a Starcraft thread, posts for subscription even though he could normally just subscribe to it without posting*

 

[Zankoku]

I'm not claiming anything about which race is favored in the matchup, I'm stating what the answers to Mutalisks are for Protoss. Stop turning every post I make into a rant about imba. I dunno. Make Archons.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Man

might not be able to play this weekend/go online much at all depending on strength of friends' neighbor's internet connection. Kinda upsets me. Eh.

 

[shanus]

I'm not claiming anything about which race is favored in the matchup, I'm stating what the answers to Mutalisks are for Protoss. Stop turning every post I make into a rant about imba. I dunno. Make Archons.

Apologies, the tone of your post made it sound like it was in response to mutas as a counter, so I was arguing against it!

My b

 

[M@v]

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/936927#blog
blizzcon invitational starts at 1:30 tomorrow!

 

[StealthyGunnar]

so my friend from Iraq sent me a new computer w/ a copy of star craft...

what is this? i have no idea, he says its fun, what is this? whats the plot? what do u do? can someone anwer these questions? i hope so?

 

[Zone]

If you know that little about it just start by going to their website

 

[rhan]

The plot is to obliterate everything in sight.

 

[ArcNatural]

Look at the success of PvZ in GSL, its disgusting how 1-sided every match was (I think every ZvP was 2-0'd by the zerg by an overwhelming majority, grantd most were roach pushes).

Look Ma! The top ranked zerg seeds beat their lol ranked terran/protoss seeds in the first rounds of GSL!

You have to remember the qualifiers for GSL 2 were pre-patch and that was before the Zerg buff. So ideally the Zergs who made it into the GSL are really good and had to deal with pre-patch rushes. It makes sense that Zerg will do better since they don't really need to change their game with the buffs (save for more viability for roaches), while Terran and Protoss need to figure out different timing pushes and (omg!) actually try to scout or be prepared for the one type of safe rush Zerg can do.

I'm not saying there might not be issues with PvZ yet, but basing it off top names vs bottom unknowns is dumb. Wait until the top players play. I mean every single TvZ in the round of 64 was basically T trying some 1 base all-in or cheese play. In terms of expectations in the round of 64 there were virtually 0 upsets, just more T and P matches than Z matches.

I do think a Zerg has the best chance of winning this simply because I don't think Terran/Protoss have the time to figure out how to do proper pressure/macro set ups vs the best Zergs.

Remember less Zerg qualified overall than the other races for GSL 2. You would think the smaller % of them would be better overall than the lower ranked T and P that made it to the round of 64.

 

[Zankoku]

Uhh..

Upsets:
Top 8 P player HongUnPrime losing 2-0 to newcomer Kyrix
Top 16 T player oGsHyperDub losing to sanZenith
TankboyPrime beating Clide. Cliiiiiiide.
Someone attempting to Battlecruiser rush IdrA. Upsetting.

 

[ArcNatural]

Uhh..

Upsets:
Top 8 P player HongUnPrime losing 2-0 to newcomer Kyrix
Top 16 T player oGsHyperDub losing to sanZenith
TankboyPrime beating Clide. Cliiiiiiide.
Someone attempting to Battlecruiser rush IdrA. Upsetting.

HogUnPrime vs Kyrix was not an upset. Did you even watch the games? Kyrix played extremely well:

Game 2:
Prime see's the ultralisks and continues to make units that lose horribly to ultralisk (YEAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH).

Game 3:
Prime did a horribly placed attempt at a cannon rush, so he basically lost from the beginning after he failed that. If you watch the match you should see that it was not even close to being a well played cannon rush, even a well played failed cannon rush is ok which he did not do.

This was basically Prime cracking under pressure this time around. Kyrix played very well but he didn't do anything overpowering, Prime just made pretty bad mistakes.

Your other upsets aren't even vs Zerg which is what I was talking about. Sorry for not clarifying.

And yes the battlecruiser rush was pretty lol.

SangHo beat PheonixWeRRa pretty convincingly as well.

 

[Zankoku]

Upsets in terms of names, not play.

 

[M@v]

Rank 1 platinum :D

Hoping to reaching diamond soon!

I beat the highest ranked player I ever faced today too, he was like a rank 20 diamond. Beat him pretty solidly too. TvZ. I 1 rax FE'd to a plantary fortress, transitioned to 2 rax marine marauder (1 reactor and 1 tech lab)and 3 factory thor. tore right through his ling/muta/some roach. He didnt outmacro me either until he went for 2 golds at once, one of them stopped early by me scouting it. I didnt catch the other one until after I destroyed his main/natural.

And lol at battlecruiser rushing zerg, ESPECIALLY IDRA.

 

[rhan]

Is there a new patch fixing what they did to Terran yet?

 

[M@v]

Stop qqing terran are fine. turns out reapers aren't the answer to life's mysteries.

 

[rhan]

I could careless about Reapers.

I care about that Depo bull****.

Why change the basis of Starcraft completely with one patch?

 

[Zankoku]

Yeah, Protoss totally own us now with their Gateway before Pylon build order.

On a more serious note, seems Blizzard wanted to tone down the power of Terran's opening choices.

Q: Roach / reaper changes killed off reaper vs Z, do you think this was too hasty and didnt give players enough time to come up with counter strats, Fruit Dealer showed us Z were all doing it wrong

A: Main focus is on competitive level, but we do care about team games and other levels, Reaper Ling was completely and utterly broken in 2v2. On the flip side for 1v1 Terran had too many openers that came out before they could be scouted so we wanted to limit T openers, 2v2 balance was a good excuse to nerf it.

 

[rhan]

Why bring Terran to play like Toss?

It's dumb.

And being a semi-hardcore fan since 1 I refuse to deal with such changes.

 

[Zankoku]

Zerg's Spawning Pool used to cost 150 minerals in SC1.

 

[rhan]

Did I ask that?

 

[Zankoku]

Why do you disagree with changes attempting to balance the game with the rationalization that you were a fan since SC1 if they've been making balance changes since SC1?

I'm still not sure how this Depot before Barracks makes things so much worse since it really only affects cheese builds.

What about when they added 5 seconds to Zealot build time, making it noticeably harder to deal with a late-scouted 6 pool?

 

[S l o X]

>gets in thread having played sc and not sc2

any tips for new sc player? like . . . still doing single player type of new? possible websites and stuff?

 

[Zone]

Terran does not build like toss they can still build anywhere. They are not comparable

Slox you can watch gomtv.net for gsl games. I wouldn't recommend too much blizzard forumns it's usually just full of people crying instead of spending their time to try And learn their way around things. People just need to try hard and try new strats and let the game balance out as the game goes on through a few patches. I do think sometimes these patches are too quick behind eachother to give time to really let things test themselves out a bit

 

[shanus]

Saw this on the forums, kind of shocking:

Oct 26:

Races to have made Round 16 so far

Zergs : 7

Protoss: 1

Terran: 1

1.1.2 did some good stuff.

 

[Zankoku]

I count 4 Terrans. Protoss is underpowered.

Also, of the remaining four matches in Ro32, only one of them involves Zerg (Fruit Dealer).

 

[Zone]

Yeah WTF are archons for?? They can only counter muta if they commit to attacking the archons and don't magic box. Well atleast that's what blizz claims they counter I imagine they **** lings a bit too. I think archons when they die should explode a recharge shields of surrounding Units by 50. or give them more range+ speed

 

[JTB]

fruitdealer, boxer, and nexgenius all playing tonight, I'm pretty excited

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ankoku are you watching Day[9]?

 

[Zone]

Fruitdealer

 

[AltF4]

Yeah WTF are archons for?? They can only counter muta if they commit to attacking the archons and don't magic box. Well atleast that's what blizz claims they counter I imagine they **** lings a bit too. I think archons when they die should explode a recharge shields of surrounding Units by 50. or give them more range+ speed

I've never seen a pro ever actually intentionally GO for archons. Think of them as an extra bonus ability that High Templar have. When you run out of energy, just turn into archons.

Plus, they're amazing tanks. Stick them in the front of your army and watch them absorb damage while the rest of the army beats.

 

[ArcNatural]

So far oGsZenio vs IMmvp and FakeBoxer vs FruitDealer have been the highlights of this tournament.

Both sets were played extremely well imo. Showing the skills for both sides. I still can't really believe what I saw between oGsZenio and IMmvp. That whole set had crazy drops/good decisions and really good positioning. IMmvp only had to scan that greater spire to have won that set. So intense.

I think the FakeBoxer vs FruitDealer set showed really good ways to effectively harass Zerg without it being lol mass reaper or lol hellions easily avoid roaches. I can't wait to watch the rest of the matches.

But really the oGsZenio vs imMVP was just soo good.

Archons aren't meant to be a very effective unit, there basically meant to be ok units once your dark templar or high templar are rendered useless. Although I find just putting dark templar in your main force ball is more effective than combining them usually.

I think you guys are QQing (mainly Rhan) about the patch a little early. The patch literally happened just before GSL2, in fact the qualifiers were before the patch. The fact that Zerg literally didn't have to change anything to their game (unless they wanted to add more roach play) while Protoss and Terran need to now be more focused on proper timing attacks and not early rushes makes it obvious there would be set backs (especially for those who qualified via early cheese/all-in builds). But watching these recent matches have been pretty good.

I have hopes that it will look even stronger by GSL 3 although I feel that Blizzard may do some tweaking to Protoss.

Edit: Meant Rhan, So sorry Ankoku!

 

[Zankoku]

...I'm complaining about the patch, what?

No, really, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

 

[ArcNatural]

...I'm complaining about the patch, what?

No, really, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Totally referring to the wrong person. Sorry Ankoku @.@;

 

[Zankoku]

Haha, alright. I was thinking, like "maybe he actually believed I was serious about the Protoss' Gateway before Pylon build?"

 

[Scabe]

When you use Tsionic Storm, does it hurt your own troops?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Yes it does.

Scabe add me up =D

Solid 414

 

[Scabe]

I mostly play on the SEA server though

 

[rhan]

Playing Toss until the patch is fixed.