Starcraft 2 (Info on first post!)

[Zone]

I've played hardcore Zerg since release. I can play an ok Protoss also. My Terran sucks the big one.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Arc, can you play later this week/weekend? I need to get better against good Zergs.

 

[rhan]

So I'm not going to PT with my dad with morning...

So I'll pretty much be on SCII and Halo: Reach all day until I see my girl.

 

[ArcNatural]

Arc, can you play later this week/weekend? I need to get better against good Zergs.

Yep, I should be on. Got promoted to approximately Gold 1100ish yesterday. Thus, my steady climb in teh skill continues!

 

[rhan]

Quick question:

What is the most legit build v Toss as Terran? Would it be 3 rack Marine/Mar or something along those lines? I've been struggling a little in the match-up recently and either want to know a few more other builds for the match-up or find out the best build.

 

[Zankoku]

Make Ghosts.

 

[rhan]

Ghosts are hella expensive.. Honestly I don't find them worth the money. I mean EMP is great. But they're so damaging to my econ..

 

[Zankoku]

Look at it this way - for 150/150, you halve the HP of every Protoss unit in an area of effect. 100 shield damage is pretty huge as long as you keep them alive. Ghosts are what make Immortals no longer destroy Marauders, and High Templars not nearly as huge of a threat. Honestly, the only other way you're beating a Protoss is eliminating him early on, when he can't get his economy going and pump out 6 Colossi to support his Stalkers.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I don't know why any Terran player wouldn't get ghosts against Protoss. For real, the match up becomes 20x easier once you get some **** ghosts. Bio balls wont beat any Protoss ground army with a few colossi or HTs mixed in. However, toss a ghost in there, and suddenly Protoss is at a massive disadvantage.

150/150 is really not that bad at all. Especially considering that the upgrades and units I need to get just to compete with the basic bio ball cost more than that. You don't even need a lot of ghosts. Like... one or two mixed in the army.

 

[rhan]

I'll consider it in the next game I play v Toss. Unless someone wants to help me practice getting a couple ghost in the ball. But that means I'll have to specifically hot key my Ghosts... which means I have to scoot all my standard hot keys over by one.. That'll take some time to adjust to..

I don't even know a Ghost build though. I'll check TL real quick.

 

[Cynan Machae]

Uh ghosts are just so good vs P. And they are pretty much needed against a templar heavy army. Sure if they are heavy on colossi you might want to spend most of your gas on vikings but on any ground based army ghosts are a must.

 

[rhan]

Yeah I was reading this build and I noticed that having a Ghost can really help. It's kinda a variant of 3 Racks Marine/Mar. It's just a little more costly.

I wanna practice this build. But first I gotta study it a little more.

 

[shanus]

If you don't get ghosts, your dumb.

Also, Collosus are just too risky to really do v a good terran since its so simple to land your port on your reactor and get dual vikings. I greatly prefer temps, and most of them I get collos I'm forced to tech switch to temps anyway as I expo more.

 

[Zone]

You don't have to give them a whole hotkey slot you could tab through your army I'm pretty sure clicking the whole army priotiZes the ghosts abilities

 

[rhan]

Yeah I noticed that when I just played against A.I.

That was actually like the first time playing with Ghosts (Besides to do funny nukes). I never knew how gay the EMP is... Ghosts are not my new favorite unit. But yeah I'm use to hot keying the important units cuz in SC:BW, the Ghost powers didn't override all others.

I still my keep them on a separate hot key though. So I can keep stim going for the Marine/Mars.

THIS JUST IN:

I ****ing suck using Ghosts... Seriously I need a buddy to practice with.. ._.

 

[Cynan Machae]

How have you been transitioning out of the build you linked earlier? Ghost marine is indeed not as agressive as the 3 rax builds which you have spoke about earlier but tey are safer vs a lot more builds

I don't mind playing some games if you want to get some practice with them

 

[Omni]

EMP -> Protoss is to Fungal Growth -> Terran

ill be playing this evening. slowly getting more comfortable with this game

 

[M@v]

You need to practice with ghosts first. Get good hotkeying them, so you can emp + stim simultaneously.

I still like going maruader heavy too vs toss since they are so good vs all toss gateway units.

Sometimes marauder/thor works too.

 

[Zankoku]

Chargelots + HT would **** Marauder/Thor, I think.

EDIT: NEVERMIND, Thors no longer have energy! Might still have trouble with mass chargelots though.

 

[Twig]

Chargelots + HT would **** Marauder/Thor, I think.

EDIT: NEVERMIND, Thors no longer have energy! Might still have trouble with mass chargelots though.

You'd think chargelots would beat mass marauders. You know... with that 200/200 2 min upgrade. But nope. Concussive shells completely stops charge. Good thing that 50/50 30 sec upgrade has a cooldown like charge...oh wait. This on top of stim kiting makes catching a group of maruaders with chargelots impossible. Not to mention you can't catch them with your HT's to storm...which they move out of instantly, sentries are also too slow to try and FF behind them.

And that is when I gave up playing 1v1's seriously.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

You're going about it wrong. Stop looking at things that don't and instead look at things that work. If Chargelots aren't working, don't use Chargelots.

 

[Lovage]

You'd think chargelots would beat mass marauders. You know... with that 200/200 2 min upgrade. But nope. Concussive shells completely stops charge. Good thing that 50/50 30 sec upgrade has a cooldown like charge...oh wait. This on top of stim kiting makes catching a group of maruaders with chargelots impossible. Not to mention you can't catch them with your HT's to storm...which they move out of instantly, sentries are also too slow to try and FF behind them.

And that is when I gave up playing 1v1's seriously.

noob mentality

 

[Zankoku]

Why are you maxing out supply on CHARGELOTS? If you have that kind of economy, make something useful, like Immortals, VOID RAYS, or even some Sentries to FF up the area and prevent Marauders from all running away.

 

[Melomaniacal]

noob mentality

Well, it's not like the game is balanced.

Why are you maxing out supply on CHARGELOTS? If you have that kind of economy, make something useful, like Immortals, VOID RAYS, or even some Sentries to FF up the area and prevent Marauders from all running away.

I think he was talking about the upgrade costing 200/200, not having 200 supply of zealots.

 

[JTB]

Well, it's not like the game is balanced.

saying the game should work one way in your favor when it works another way against you is a noob mentality

play the game as it is, not how you think it should be

 

[Melomaniacal]

saying the game should work one way in your favor when it works another way against you is a noob mentality

play the game as it is, not how you think it should be

I think that's the mentality you should have when nothing will change. However, Blizzard has acknowledged on multiple occasions that there are balance issues and Terran are being looked at (they just nerfed them again recently, actually).

Blizzard has said multiple times that they are looking for feedback on game balance. So just accepting imbalances when they are just that - imbalances - isn't really good. Now what is and isn't imbalanced is up for debate, but plenty of people agree that Terran upgrades need to be looked at.

 

[HeroMystic]

I think that's the mentality you should have when nothing will change. However, Blizzard has acknowledged on multiple occasions that there are balance issues and Terran are being looked at (they just nerfed them again recently, actually).

Blizzard has said multiple times that they are looking for feedback on game balance. So just accepting imbalances when they are just that - imbalances - isn't really good. Now what is and isn't imbalanced is up for debate, but plenty of people agree that Terran upgrades need to be looked at.

Terran is (was) imbalanced, but only in early game. Terran is my main race, but I'm not ignorant of the fact that the race has powerful units with cheap and quick utility upgrades unlike the other two units.

But I think the biggest imbalance to Terran as of now is the fast tech. Terran can get to Thors a bit before the 7 min mark and Battlecrusiers within the 10 min mark, while at the same time enabled to get a sizable army. Granted, the opponent should have an even bigger army, and with pressure Terran can get owned, but if they fail to do it enough, Terran just steamrolls the opponent.

But note I only said early game. In mid game, if Terran fails to harass the opponent, Protoss and Zerg evens out, and then during late game, Protoss/Zerg are actually better than Terran, especially Protoss since they have such a strong array of units.

This is why you have to be careful to nerf things correctly. I believe Reapers were nerfed too hard this patch, and I think Blizzard focused too hard on them instead of looking at Marauders, which have too much utility all game long.

 

[AvaricePanda]

You'd think chargelots would beat mass marauders. You know... with that 200/200 2 min upgrade. But nope. Concussive shells completely stops charge. Good thing that 50/50 30 sec upgrade has a cooldown like charge...oh wait. This on top of stim kiting makes catching a group of maruaders with chargelots impossible. Not to mention you can't catch them with your HT's to storm...which they move out of instantly, sentries are also too slow to try and FF behind them.

And that is when I gave up playing 1v1's seriously.

sentries sentries sentries sentries sentries sentries sentries.

i don't really know what you mean by sentries are too slow unless you're just fighting in a bad place. the FF range is pretty good and unless you're either in a wide open space or you're trying to chase your opponent while they're already running, you should be able to get them. You should be able to get forcefields behind the marauder ball, get in your chargelots to soak up damage and slice through marines, and using your HTs to forcefield, all the while mitigating damage with guardian shield. Immortals do well against marauders but I personally don't like using them because of how expensive they are and how fast terran can switch to a wave of marines to kill them. Collosi are just good.

I think also a mix of zealot/sentry/stalker without HTs can do the trick. Chargelots to soak up damage and stalkers to hit them.

Marauders are IMO the most annoying Terran unit to deal with as Protoss, but it's not that bad. Certainly shouldn't make you give up 1v1s completely.

 

[JTB]

I think that's the mentality you should have when nothing will change. However, Blizzard has acknowledged on multiple occasions that there are balance issues and Terran are being looked at (they just nerfed them again recently, actually).

Blizzard has said multiple times that they are looking for feedback on game balance. So just accepting imbalances when they are just that - imbalances - isn't really good. Now what is and isn't imbalanced is up for debate, but plenty of people agree that Terran upgrades need to be looked at.

I'm not denying there is imbalance, I accept it and (attempt to) not let it affect me. Imagine if you were a zerg player prior to these patches and instead of waiting around for blizzard to balance the zvt matchup, you instead accepted it and learned how to deal with it. Once the new patches rolled around, you are already a better player because you no longer have that handicap working against you.

So yes, you should play the game as it is. Cool doesn't let the fact that zerg was the worst race affect him, he ***** terran and doesn't afraid of anything.

 

[Melomaniacal]

I'm not denying there is imbalance, I accept it and (attempt to) not let it affect me. Imagine if you were a zerg player prior to these patches and instead of waiting around for blizzard to balance the zvt matchup, you instead accepted it and learned how to deal with it. Once the new patches rolled around, you are already a better player because you no longer have that handicap working against you.

So yes, you should play the game as it is. Cool doesn't let the fact that zerg was the worst race affect him, he ***** terran and doesn't afraid of anything.

Well it's not like you can't complain about it and ask to have it fixed while also learning to deal with it the best you can. But it's not as easy as you make it sound to just "deal with" imbalances. If Zerg has no answer to a Terran tactic/unit/timing/whatever, then they have no answer to it. You can't just skill your way to victory if there is an actual imbalance.

For the record, I do agree with you to an extent, it's just that you're making it sound like "imbalances don't matter, if you're good enough you will overcome them," when that isn't always the case.

 

[Zankoku]

Zerg has an answer to everything Terran does. It's just that it needs prior knowledge of which of 5 different builds Terran is doing.

 

[Twig]

Touche Lovage. It was one of many reasons I stopped caring though... especially me beating http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/565952/1/Being/ and not getting any points...... stupid bnet.

@Ankoku Yeah... 200 minerals 200 gas upgrade, not 200 population LOL. I was at about maybe 50, if that.

But anyway, I didn't meant to spark so much debate, it was just a group of marauders, say 15, with 2 medivacs, i was pushing out as soon as charge teched, with storm shortly behind it when on blistering sands i was met in the middle, and got royally boned by a 50/50 upgrade.

My biggest gripe with concussive shells is that there is NO cooldown, especially for the cost, and that it negates charge. The end.

Every RTS will be imbalanced, thats what makes it challenging/interesting. Except for cookie cutter NE in Wc3 =p, /rage.

P.S. Lovage I want to play you now =) Twig #511, I wanna get destroyed =) and anyone else.
Creds - http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1533960/1/Twig/
Not that great =(.

 

[shanus]

Touche Lovage. It was one of many reasons I stopped caring though... especially me beating http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/565952/1/Being/ and not getting any points...... stupid bnet.

@Ankoku Yeah... 200 minerals 200 gas upgrade, not 200 population LOL. I was at about maybe 50, if that.

But anyway, I didn't meant to spark so much debate, it was just a group of marauders, say 15, with 2 medivacs, i was pushing out as soon as charge teched, with storm shortly behind it when on blistering sands i was met in the middle, and got royally boned by a 50/50 upgrade.

My biggest gripe with concussive shells is that there is NO cooldown, especially for the cost, and that it negates charge. The end.

Every RTS will be imbalanced, thats what makes it challenging/interesting. Except for cookie cutter NE in Wc3 =p, /rage.

P.S. Lovage I want to play you now =) Twig #511, I wanna get destroyed =) and anyone else.
Creds - http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1533960/1/Twig/
Not that great =(.

Did you not feedback the medivacs?

Chargelots are awesome, but a critical marass of marauders will be able to stimkite you with the medivacs and pay a little price on their hp. Once you feedback the medivacs to get them out of the story, chargelots v marauders improves dramatically as their stim kite pays a much more significant toll.

 

[Twig]

Did you not feedback the medivacs?

Chargelots are awesome, but a critical marass of marauders will be able to stimkite you with the medivacs and pay a little price on their hp. Once you feedback the medivacs to get them out of the story, chargelots v marauders improves dramatically as their stim kite pays a much more significant toll.

HT's were just coming in, was saving energy for storm (as it was teching), he only had 2 medivacs as it was anyway. He may have only stimmed twice, but eating 5 of my zealots in the process (2 from me charging, then 3 chasing me down). Idk if losing storm over 2 medivacs was going to be worth it, maybe it would have been, I honestly wish I had the replay to look over it (hope they implement an auto-save all replays feature soon).

No Johns, shoulda played better.

 

[rhan]

Just read the changes on the new patch.




One word describes what that is.









Stupid.

Edit: I mean the nerf on the void rays was a terrible idea. Nerfing the MMM ball was legit. Depo before rack introduces 6 pool every time.

The Buff are all agreeable on though. Especially Zerg. They needed stronger buildings. But if you're going to already nerf Reapers why nerf them even more?! Or in that case... if you're going to greatly buff one race and greatly nerf another what's the point? Terran wasn't that OP with Reaper rushes. And if Zerg is going to have stronger buildings then wtf?

 

[Cynan Machae]

Hm rax before supply isn't needed to stop 6 pool tho..

 

[rhan]

It helps if you want to have a reliable defense. Fast Marine and a block will scare them off. And if not it will get kills while they can't break through.

Btw played a few matches. And I refuse to play under such conditions.

 

[Cynan Machae]

If you scout it you can easily finish your wall and have 1-2 scv reparing while you are waiting for your marine to come out.

6 pool is suicide against T

Where you going rax before depot by default vs Zergs? You will never scout the Z before starting either your depot or your rax, so I don't see any problem whatsoever vs 6 pool

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

I really don't like how far they nerfed the reapers. There isn't really a reason to use them now. Maybe we'll see more quick Hellion harass now.

 

[shanus]

This patch is stupid as ****.

Nerfing VRs is one tihng (they way overnerfed them though, the increase in dps uncharged is completely null in late game), but the removal of energy on Thor and Corruptor impact on high templar feedback was 100% unjustified. That is a HUGE change and will completely reshape Pvt and PvZ.

Very very annoying and very stupid.