Teenage Mafia Ninja Turtles #2 - GAME OVER - Who lived happily ever after in NY?

[Yeroc]

Oops, forgot to remove my sig >_<. M3D want to take care of that or just leave it?

 

[Overswarm]

If claiming miller as a townie was the best claim, he could be a townie claiming miller only to call out others. It's likely that if KevinM is a townie, but not a miller, and was claiming it he'd more likely do it for a reason rather than just to **** with us.

It's possible he is just attempting to get information which both Kirbyo and Gheb have given us, although I'm not experienced in this so this might be an insane play and I could just be spouting nonsense.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Chill, I don't think it's bad of you to take Kevin's claim with a grain of salt. When you think about the essential point of his claim though you'll realize that he basically told the cop to not investigate him. This isn't something you can hold against him because a townie wouldn't want to get investigated when he knows it's going to be a guilty anyways. Whether he actually is town or not remains to be seen - based on his claim the odds for him to be town or scum are still the same.

This is why I'm suspicious of Kirbyoshi - because he's not just questioning Kevin's claim. He's going further than that - he's trying to incriminate him. Based on his weak reasoning (how is claiming Miller suspect?) I'd say he's either pseudo-scumhunting, looking for a scapegoat or that he's using really bad logic. All three options are anti-town - even though the latter could just be poor play I'd really like him to explain himself in detail, especially when he's under the pressure of a couple more votes.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Ok, so everyone has given solid reasons why claiming Miller right off the bat can be pro-town, so I'm willing to let it go on Kevin's part. However, Gheb's posts have a couple holes in them, which seem to point to me that they're contrived:

Kevin could be lying or not - does it matter?

**** yes it matters if he's scum or not.

The whole point is that the cop shouldn't investigate him because he gets a guilty anyways regardless of Kevin's allignment.

This was honestly kinda my point to begin with. If he were scum, the whole reason for faking Miller would be to avoid an investigation.

especially when he's under the pressure of a couple more votes.

Not to sound cocky, but do you have anybody in mind who you think would vote me who's not voting me already?

Unvote for now, until something else arises.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

**** yes it matters if he's scum or not.

Just because he's lying doesn't mean he has to be scum.

This was honestly kinda my point to begin with. If he were scum, the whole reason for faking Miller would be to avoid an investigation.

And if he were town he had just as good reasons to not want to be investigated.

Not to sound cocky, but do you have anybody in mind who you think would vote me who's not voting me already?

This is why I try to convince people.

 

[Scamp]

Unvote Vote: Overswarm

I'm getting tired of the "I don't know what I'm doing" routine. If something makes sense, it makes sense. But being constantly unsure of yourself not only makes me want to ignore everything you say but it also makes you look scummy due to the fact that you don't want to offend anyone.

If you're going to scumhunt, you're going to offend someone. That's the nature of the game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Even if kevin's lying, there's absolutely no way to prove it without his actual death, which I'm not comfortable with at the moment.

 

[Dastrn]

Unvote Vote: Overswarm

I'm getting tired of the "I don't know what I'm doing" routine. If something makes sense, it makes sense. But being constantly unsure of yourself not only makes me want to ignore everything you say but it also makes you look scummy due to the fact that you don't want to offend anyone.

If you're going to scumhunt, you're going to offend someone. That's the nature of the game.

That's a pretty shady reason to vote for someone. This is his first game. He's supposed to be unsure of himself. In a thread full of people saying WIFOM and scum and words he's not used to, he's naturally going to feel a little in over his head. But knowing OS is really perceptive, he's still actively participating and figuring things out quickly. For him to mention that he's unsure/new is an appropriate way for him to say something without committing too hard.

It's not scummy to be afraid of offending anyone. NO ONE wants to be lynched, including town. He's just playing his cards right to not make enemies. That's good mafia play whether you're scum or town.

unvote
vote Scamp

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hey Dastrn do you actually think Scamp is scum based on that statement?

I guess we can also just lynch Iggy for a much easier time later and call it a day.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Just because he's lying doesn't mean he has to be scum.

I am the biggest fan of Lynch All Liars. Why would you lie if you are town? I know, town members have lied before, but I see no logic behind it. For now though, I believe Kevin.

And if he were town he had just as good reasons to not want to be investigated.

Do you even know that you said this in response to my condition that he was lying? If he's town, faking Miller, why would he do it to avoid investigation? If he's not really Miller, but still town, he'll show as town to the cop.

And @Scamp, suspecting someone for playing the n00bcard alot =/= scumtell.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So you basically choose to play this game based on stereotypical ideas instead of your own intelligence? Great idea.

Townies can have good reasons to lie about being Miller or not. Not going into detail here as it'd just end up in rolefishing but it's certainly the case. Can't help you if you're too stubborn to see it or if you just continue to blindly follow the dumb idea of lynching all liars.

 

[M3D]

Vote Count
Kirbyoshi (3) - KevinM, Overswarm, Gheb_01
KevinM (1) - Kirbyoshi
Chaco (1) - Ignatius
Dastrn (1) - Junglefever
Overswarm (1) - Scamp
Scamp (1) - Dastrn

Not Voting
Chill, Tom, Chaco, Yeroc, tHe-Man

Prod
Tom, Chaco

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline: Wednesday, March 31st @ Noon Eastern Time

 

[tHe-Man]

By the way, do you guys want a nameclaim from us, as to reinforce our claim?

No response?

unvote since its still just a joke vote on.

But I'll throw a vote Chaco's way cause, hey why not.

Hey, why not explain rather than stick to a safe vote and stay out of the main discussion?

I am the biggest fan of Lynch All Liars. Why would you lie if you are town? I know, town members have lied before, but I see no logic behind it. For now though, I believe Kevin.

Look at Gheb in Monster Island. It can happen and it can be pro-town.

Kevin's innocence is not cleared, but we've got no reason to lynch him at the moment. This discussion is all well and good for taking a step out of RVS, but it's becoming a distraction we don't need.

Moving on:

Hey Dastrn do you actually think Scamp is scum based on that statement?

What do you think about the statement, Gheb?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9862222&postcount=120

Thanks for stating the oh so obvious options, now why don't you start a case or take a stance? Your other post in the thread was
this one, in which you promised a better post and called people out on activity. The first point is null, as you haven't made a good post and the second point didn't really help at all. Calling people out is best done with a question, preferably with stating your own opinion first.

FoS: Yeroc

Yeah, you seem to be a fine starting place. Someone want to be a kind soul and throw a vote for me?

 

[tHe-Man]

*throw a vote for us*

xD




But yeah,...

Hey guys! I've got a great idea! Let's get sidetracked by Kevin's role claim some more!

If he's town, it's the proper play. If he's scum, we'll catch him later. No arguments. Moving on? Oh, thanks.

I saw it was posted early that this was Overswarm's first game (thought it was one of, not THE first game). Some people take to it well, some people take a lot more getting used to. I think Overswarm is doing a good job of processing the way the game is played. An Overswarm wagon would be dumb.

 

[Yeroc]

"Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing or mismatched.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error."

Goddammit. I'll try to rewrite the post I had answering you.

 

[Yeroc]

If I understand you correctly, tHe-Man, the only point I see is the implication that I'm actively coasting by trying to look like I'm contributing while not actually doing anything because I have something to hide. Everything else boils down to you not caring for my playstyle. Let's face it: I'm terrible at Day 1. I always have been. Being rusty at mafia games doesn't help, but I work better with hard evidence than I do with vague behavioral analysis.

To actually address your point, here's some of my impressions of various people thus far:

As of right now, I'm inclined to trust KevinM for the moment, or at least to leave him be. In the past I've picked up on some of Kevmo's scumtells, and I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary from him so far this game. I agree with his logic concerning the miller, and while that doesn't automatically clear him as town, it's not a pressing issue and I think you'd agree with me.

The more I read, and the more that's been posted since Wednesday, of the discussions involving Kirbyo the more I think he's less likely to be scum and more likely to have made a bad play. Most of the talking points I had picked out early on have already been discussed, which is ironic considering there hasn't been a whole lot happening. At any rate I still have nothing new to add there anymore.

Gheb's style of attack confuses me, strangely enough because he's arguing the same thing I was. Has indicated scum to me in the past, but I'm not going to go that far yet. He's not done enough to warrant that accusation.

Not sure I agree with Scamp's assessment. OS is obviously and understandably hesitant, but not inordinately so. Not exactly scummy, maybe just a little overbearing.

Happy, tHe-Man? If I can put together any more coherent ideas about other players, I'd be happy to share them. As for trying to take your advice about the way I approach the game: Chaco, what do you think of Scamp's accusation?

I would still like to hear some of the other players opinions on some of the things I've just posted as well as the game itself as a whole.

 

[KevinM]

I've been having that problem a lot lately.

I still really don't like Kirb for trying to belittle my claim based off of a case he looked like he was super reaching for but I'll get Unvote

Not sure if he's just dumb or if its an actual scumtell and we've got plenty of time in the day.

And since he asked for it.

Vote Chill

GO GO GO Lynch.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

@Man

I will answer the question once Dastrn did. I want to see his reaction first.

Unvote Vote Iggy

 

[Scamp]

I'm also waiting on a Dastrn reply.

 

[Overswarm]

Unvote Vote: Overswarm

I'm getting tired of the "I don't know what I'm doing" routine. If something makes sense, it makes sense. But being constantly unsure of yourself not only makes me want to ignore everything you say but it also makes you look scummy due to the fact that you don't want to offend anyone.

If you're going to scumhunt, you're going to offend someone. That's the nature of the game.

Unvote Vote: Scamp

Basically what Dastrn said.

I'm not slouch, but as a first timer you'd have to admit that no matter how sharp I may be I'm not going to pick up on everything the first time. Besides, asking questions results in answers, and answers reveals information; information is required to make logical decisions.

We know mafia exists. Simply by asking questions we can get more information that helps uncover them. While "offending someone" might be the status quo in the game, I don't think asking "what is a miller" is particularly offensive nor needs to be to have any part in this game.

However, calling out a newbie for asking questions within the first day of the game is particularly shady. Perhaps this is the offensive nature you are referencing... but it seems your entire post is meant to discredit me and point suspicion at me simultaneously for little to no reason at all. It'd be one thing if I was walking into walls and proclaiming my ignorance in every post for days on end, but I've actually made observations of my own and have actively been trying to figure things out rather than making bold accusations with no merit and hoping things fall into place.

User Name Posts
Overswarm 16
KevinM 15
M3D 14
Kirbyoshi 14
Dastrn 10
Junglefever 10
Yeroc 10
Gheb_01 10
tHe-Man 9
Chill 7
Scamp 6
Ignatius 3
Lythium 3
Mic_128 2
Ryker 2
Dr Drew the Dragon 2
Omnigamer 2
Tom 1
Crimson King 1
Chaco 1
Mini Mic 1

I post a lot on smashboards (just look at the MK ban thread, lol), and I'll admit that at least half or more of my posts are simply questions, but your posts?

I'm in.

Hoping I get the role of Bebop provided in the example. That dude is a sidekick to Splinter! Who knew?

I've played six times in the backroom and I've never won. I'm currently in the unintended consequences game that Kiki is running.

I did not play in the first TMNT game.



@Dastrn: Dude, Bebop is not Splinter's sidekick.



Vote:Lythium

A perfect prosecutor would never drop.

Oh, whoops. I didn't quite get the example clearly. Thanks Kirbyoshi!


Anyway, my general dislike of Gheb's opinion still stands. I have no idea what to make of MK's experience in the example but that shouldn't matter for this game. You can't just allow someone to say they're a miller and not question it. I can't think of a town-aligned reason not to do it.

Unvote Vote: Overswarm

I'm getting tired of the "I don't know what I'm doing" routine. If something makes sense, it makes sense. But being constantly unsure of yourself not only makes me want to ignore everything you say but it also makes you look scummy due to the fact that you don't want to offend anyone.

If you're going to scumhunt, you're going to offend someone. That's the nature of the game.

I'm also waiting on a Dastrn reply.

So far, the only things I've seen you do is attempt to discredit me for asking questions like the new player I am (and somehow this makes me scummy?) and a dislike for Gheb's opinion (in agreement with KirbyYo).

Others can take from this what they will.

 

[KevinM]

What do you take from it?

Specifically.

 

[Scamp]

Wow. Overswarm you took my post way out of context. If you think I voted for you because you're asking questions, you're wrong. In no way did I say anything about discrediting you for asking questions, and reading my post clearly reflects that.

So ask all the questions you want. Just stop saying you're lost, confused, or spouting nonsense.

Looks like I got your attention, though. Also, what was the point of posting up the number of posts so far in the thread? It also looks like you missed one of my posts.

 

[Dastrn]

Hey Dastrn do you actually think Scamp is scum based on that statement?

this is not a yes/no question in this game. You know that. I can't say yes or no because I'm (like everyone) in various shades of "unsure".

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Now that he answered it: Yes, I do think it's scummy of Scamp to say that. Many first time players have drawn the "newbie" card before and it's nothing you can base a town- or scumtell on. Even players who have a natural intelligence for such games (which I'd say OS has) unsure about what they do. Point in this case is that nothing Overswarm has said so far is wrong, he was just making sure to not say anything wrong that can be turned against him. Looks **** a natural reaction to me.

Unvote Vote Scamp

I think you're trying to nudge the newest player here to keep yourself an option for later. Scum looking for a mislynch that will probably leave no bad consequences because you can blame it on him being new. That's classic.

 

[Scamp]

It's not scummy to be afraid of offending anyone. NO ONE wants to be lynched, including town. He's just playing his cards right to not make enemies. That's good mafia play whether you're scum or town.
[/B]

And this is where we disagree. It is VERY scummy to be afraid of offending anyone because that is EXACTLY the mindset that people tend to take when they aren't trying to get caught. It is not good mafia play whether you're scum or town because otherwise all you get are a bunch of posts that don't have any bearing and no one takes any responsibility for anything they say.

So, in a nutshell, you do not play nice if you're town.

I think you're trying to nudge the newest player here to keep yourself an option for later. Scum looking for a mislynch that will probably leave no bad consequences because you can blame it on him being new. That's classic.

I think you are reaching really far with this assessment. First of all, where everyone seems to be confused is that a vote for OS does not necessarily mean that I want him dead now. Secondly, you think that I will be able to start a mislynch and just say "oh he's new?" Being new is not a reason to lynch somebody.

I know OS's posting style on these boards. I'm telling him not to play nice.

By the way, do you know what else is classic? Defending someone you know is innocent (because you're mafia) in order to look good later. What do you think of that scenerio?

 

[Overswarm]

First of all, where everyone seems to be confused is that a vote for OS does not necessarily mean that I want him dead now.

Isn't that the only thing a vote does?

 

[Ignatius]

It's also typically used as a pressuring tool to get people to talk, kinda like a super FoS. But essentially, it means if they don't respond to whatever you want them to from the vote, it means you'd want them dead.

Out of curiosity OS(btw I miss you too), what would you expect the overall numbers of the game to look like, how many town/scum players there are? And have you looked much into the various types of roles that exist?

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Apparently, mod didn't see this.

Unvote Kevin
Vote: Chaco

Anybody know if he's V/LA? Looked back in this thread, and didn't see anything. He hasn't made a game post yet >.>

 

[M3D]

Chaco and Tom have been prodded. They have about 24 hours before I replace them. If anyone chats with Chaco, remind him to get in. I've bugged Tom, so we'll see if he shows up by tomorrow.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

@mod: I think Tom has been having computer problems for a while.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think you are reaching really far with this assessment. First of all, where everyone seems to be confused is that a vote for OS does not necessarily mean that I want him dead now.

Then what do you vote him for?

Secondly, you think that I will be able to start a mislynch and just say "oh he's new?" Being new is not a reason to lynch somebody.

It's comfortable for scum though.

By the way, do you know what else is classic? Defending someone you know is innocent (because you're mafia) in order to look good later. What do you think of that scenerio?

I'm not defending him - I'm accusing you. Major difference. I don't know if Overswarm is actually "innocent". What I do know is that your reaction towards him rubs me the wrong way.

It's also typically used as a pressuring tool to get people to talk, kinda like a super FoS.

1.) How about letting the person answer who's actually supposed to answer it first?FoS Iggy

2.) Why does he have to get the player with the highest number of posts talk?

3.) Do you have anything to actually say as in: who you think is scum, what do you think of what happened so far, are Scamp / Kirbyo scummy etc.

 

[Ignatius]

1.) How about letting the person answer who's actually supposed to answer it first?FoS Iggy

wa t

 

[Scamp]

Then what do you vote him for?


It's comfortable for scum though.


I'm not defending him - I'm accusing you. Major difference. I don't know if Overswarm is actually "innocent". What I do know is that your reaction towards him rubs me the wrong way.


1.) How about letting the person answer who's actually supposed to answer it first?FoS Iggy

2.) Why does he have to get the player with the highest number of posts talk?

3.) Do you have anything to actually say as in: who you think is scum, what do you think of what happened so far, are Scamp / Kirbyo scummy etc.

You vote for pressure, attention, reaction, what have you. Sometimes you add to a wagon just to see what people on the wagon do. What if I had just said what I did without the vote? It's almost certain I wouldn't have gotten all those reactions.

The only way your scenario would be comfortable for scum would be if the rest of the town agreed and hopped on a "lynch the newbie" bandwagon.

If you're not defending him then you think it's possible that I'm nudging the new player to set up a bus in the future? Glad the focus is on me, though. I actually like that statement.

1) Was I supposed to answer it first? Anyway, check out how serious my next quote becomes!

2) I'm not getting him to talk, I'm trying to get him to talk differently. Check out his post on me, it's nice and assertive. But then he goes and is like: "Others can take from this what they will." So it's really: I'm just gonna point this out, but I'm not gonna take any credit or responsibility for it at all.

3) I know, right? Getting Iggy to talk can be quite the chore. It's not really such a bad thing to answer questions for other people, though. But I won't do this third one for him.

What do you take from it?

Specifically.

Hey Overswarm, answer to this.


Hey Dastrn, it's really nice that you changed the parameters of the question that Gheb asked you but you really should answer it.

 

[Overswarm]

Hey Overswarm, answer to this.

I'm reading your posts and figuring out what it all means now.

From what I can see, you're coming from the perspective of either

A) scum

or

B) a lone townie not so much interested in working as a group, but rather creating a scene out of nothing and hoping something good comes out of it.


I don't like either, and stand by my vote.


@Iggy

I am unsure.

 

[Dastrn]

Hey Dastrn, it's really nice that you changed the parameters of the question that Gheb asked you but you really should answer it.

I did answer it. It's not my fault if you don't like my answer being vague, since my opinion is that I'm unsure. You're the scummiest player I've noticed.

 

[Overswarm]

I'm comfortable with lynching Scamp. He's either scum or a townie that is more of a detriment than a help; randomly throwing out accusations muddies the water. You need some sort os substance to accusations, or at least ask questions instead of making statements.

 

[M3D]

McFox replaces Tom

I spoke with Chaco and he promised to start posting. If he doesn't post by the end of today, I have subs waiting for his spot as well. Vote count coming this afternoon. I'm a little busy this morning.

 

[McFox]

Luckily I read through the topic last night when I signed up to replace, so you don't have to get a "hey guys I just replaced in I'll put up a post of my thoughts in 3 weeks after I've read the topic". This is that post. I'm on my phone, so it's the abridged version, but it'll at least put me in the game:

1) Totally agree with Kev claiming immediately. It's obvious why it works out better for us if he knows he's a Miller.

2) It's worth noting that there was a Miller in the first TMNT game. Yes, I realize that the games are vastly different, but it does lend a little credence to Kev's claim.

3) This does not mean that I automatically believe Kev's claim. But it saves us an investigation, if nothing else.

4) Also agree with He-Man (I know his actual name, this is funnier) claiming. It wouldve become obvious very quickly that he couldn't vote, and he wouldve been forced to claim D1 anyway. He saved us wasting time getting there.

5) There was really no reason for anyone else to claim. Kirbyo couldve easily hidden his restriction, and scum wouldn't have known that he had a PR. This is assuming, of course, that he is telling the truth. His claim is the easy reversal of He-Man's, with the added bonus of "I have a PR, so don't lynch me!" The problem is I don't know if I give him that much credit or not.

6) The stuff about Kev's Miller claim was already well-underway whenever Iggy showed up, posted something fairly useless, and didn't bother to comment on the situation going on at all. The only surprising part about that is that I wasn't surprised.

7) Scamp's push against OS was weaksauce, and his recent reasoning looks like backpedaling because no one else wanted to lynch the n00b.

Vote: Scamp

 

[McFox]

EBWOP: And He-Man, since I didn't see anyone else answer, don't nameclaim.

 

[Scamp]

I'm reading your posts and figuring out what it all means now.

From what I can see, you're coming from the perspective of either

A) scum

or

B) a lone townie not so much interested in working as a group, but rather creating a scene out of nothing and hoping something good comes out of it.


I don't like either, and stand by my vote.

Wait a second. You quoted every one of my posts earlier but you're reading and figuring out my posts NOW? What?

You don't understand this game with your "lone townie" stuff. Give me examples of townies working together on day one and I'll give you examples of scum hiding in the easy fellowship.

I'm comfortable with lynching Scamp. He's either scum or a townie that is more of a detriment than a help; randomly throwing out accusations muddies the water. You need some sort os substance to accusations, or at least ask questions instead of making statements.

I find it quite ironic that you're telling me what I need to do. Don't you realize that your case against me has no substance? Continue thinking I'm a detriment, though. You'll see how I'm helping in due time.

7) Scamp's push against OS was weaksauce, and his recent reasoning looks like backpedaling because no one else wanted to lynch the n00b.

Vote: Scamp

*sigh*

Really? That's what you think I was doing?