Teenage Mafia Ninja Turtles #2 - GAME OVER - Who lived happily ever after in NY?

[Overswarm]

Wait a second. You quoted every one of my posts earlier but you're reading and figuring out my posts NOW? What?

You don't understand this game with your "lone townie" stuff. Give me examples of townies working together on day one and I'll give you examples of scum hiding in the easy fellowship.

Yes; at that moment that is everything I can figure out from your posts.

I don't think I need to give examples of townies working together on day one; just townies not going at each other's throats on day one with wild accusations and hoping something sticks.

I find it quite ironic that you're telling me what I need to do. Don't you realize that your case against me has no substance? Continue thinking I'm a detriment, though. You'll see how I'm helping in due time.

Let's see what your potential outcomes are from your actions, assuming they don't get you lynched:

a) I'm a townie and you lynch me because I'm new at the game and ask questions

b) I'm scum and you lynch me because of a hunch you get because I'm new at the game and ask questions

c) I'm a townie and you create suspicion on me with no lynch

d) I'm scum and you create suspicion on me with no lynch


C & D are worthless because it gives you no concrete information, A doesn't help anyone, and B is a lucky guess. I'm going to go ahead and make the assumption that everyone who played their first mafia game didn't know all the lingo their first run through; I'm sure they asked a few questions in the first day.


Now let's look at potential outcomes for lynching you:

a) You're an aggressive townie that is voting based off incredibly weak hunches, and are lynched for it

b) You're scum that is attempting to kill one of the weaker players early on and have chosen my noobiness as the cause, and are lynched for it

The worst outcome is A, since a townie would be dead... but considering the discussion has been about your interpretation of me asking questions about lingo on the first day for the past several posts, I don't think we'd be in for much of a loss.

Your accusations are the equivalent of someone making a noise away from the action. There's no amount of reasoning that could allow someone to fathom whether or not someone was scum solely based off of their asking questions about lingo in their first mafia game. Losing you, at worst, is losing a townie that isn't helping.

But then we have to think about your intent, and realize it's infinitely more likely you're scum.

Why call me out on asking basic questions? You say "*sigh*" and the like, but several of us have mentioned the oddity of you making such a hubub about me being a new player; I don't think it's quite out of line for us to mention it.

You're either a really bad townie, or scum. I don't think you're stupid, so it seems more likely you're scum.

I stick by my vote.

 

[tHe-Man]

I'm sorry for the lack of posts lately, but Ryker has been offline for a few days and there's too much to go off saying on my own right now, as I don't contradictions made to be brushed off by saying 'it was Xonar, not me!' or 'it was Ryker, not me!' etc.

 

[Ignatius]

@Iggy

I am unsure.

Give me your best guesstimate, I'm curious as to what you think is a plausible setup.

1.) How about letting the person answer who's actually supposed to answer it first?FoS Iggy

From where I stand, and OS's various other questions throughout the day, seems to me that it was a general question. Even from waiting and rereading it another day, it still just seems like a general question to me, which makes me question a bit as to why you got so uppity about it.

To me, it comes across as a possibility that you and OS had discussed how he should respond to the post, and you had maybe advised him to pose the question as to what votes do. Which to me, in combo with your defense of him so far(granted he's done nothing to warrant any votes, so the defense is understandable on its own.) makes it seem like you may be in a mason with him. If you do happen to flip scum at some point, I'd probably be looking at OS next.

I'd also like to get a replacement on Chaco sooner rather than later, as we still don't have any posts and are drawing closer to the D1 deadline.

 

[Scamp]

Your accusations are the equivalent of someone making a noise away from the action. There's no amount of reasoning that could allow someone to fathom whether or not someone was scum solely based off of their asking questions about lingo in their first mafia game. Losing you, at worst, is losing a townie that isn't helping.

But then we have to think about your intent, and realize it's infinitely more likely you're scum.

Why call me out on asking basic questions? You say "*sigh*" and the like, but several of us have mentioned the oddity of you making such a hubub about me being a new player; I don't think it's quite out of line for us to mention it.

Stick by your vote all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you're basing your whole argument on something I never did. I had no problems with any of your questions AT ALL. I really don't care that you're a new player, all I want is for you to stop using it as an excuse to try to say things and then not take full responsibility.

My intent becomes a lot more clear when you don't just focus on the final result. There is no such thing as concrete information in this game.

As for the wagon, it really is quite silly. It's not out of line to mention it, but to start a wagon? There's a difference between starting a wagon to get some answers and doing so to kill someone. Judging by how no one has asked me to explain anything it seems like it's the latter.

As I will emphasize again, the case against me has no legs at all. It's all based on faulty presumptions and doesn't even give any good information. You lynch me and there will be two townies dead and nothing to go on for day 2. OS will just say "he wasn't helping" and everyone else goes "we went with you."

 

[Overswarm]

Like I said before.... I don't think you're stupid, so I'd be inclined to think you're scum more than a townie.

 

[McFox]

...so why are you still voting OS again? It sounds like you don't actually want to kill him, and yet you still have your vote on him. And now you're setting up OS as some kind of leader of the push against you, when in actuality Dastrn voted you before OS did.

So would lynching OS give us good information? If it wouldn't, how about voting for someone who would?

 

[Scamp]

...so why are you still voting OS again? It sounds like you don't actually want to kill him, and yet you still have your vote on him. And now you're setting up OS as some kind of leader of the push against you, when in actuality Dastrn voted you before OS did.

So would lynching OS give us good information? If it wouldn't, how about voting for someone who would?

McFox, you're all talk and no action. Why don't you actually contribute something? Don't think I didn't notice your last post was a re-hash of safe opinions against K-yosh then one quick little thing on me and a vote.

Like, for example, why don't you put your vote on someone who would give us information? Am I supposed to do all the work so you can just follow along? If you don't have anyone, then explain why your vote is still on me and what information you get from lynching me.

As for Dastrn, his vote on me is about as BS as yours. The only person's who's vote looks worse is Gheb's. Overswarm is the only person that's actually trying to reason anything with his vote on me.

Anyway, I will answer your questions. But don't first accuse me of backpedaling and then question why I still have my vote. First, as it stands right now lynching OS would not give us any good information, but that's pretty much because there aren't many opinions on him. But if we were to lynch him there would be six other people voting with me, and there would be information there. Currently I think I've gotten almost all the information I need based on the reaction to my vote.

So why is my vote still on him? Well first of all I want him to know that I'm still serious about what I said. Secondly I don't really have a reason to take it off. The only person that voting for would give information would be K-yosh and I don't think he's scum right now. Also, by taking it off it means I'm pretty much bowing to the pressure. Screw that, I meant what I said and if people want to take it out of context and then blow it out of proportion then that's the way it'll be. I'm not going to just sit back and try to get along with everyone because I actually want to get things done.


OS: Gee, thanks. I'm either dumb or scum. Well, I guess I'm dumb then.

Anyway, it looks like you want to move on to other things, so please just concede the point that I wasn't accusing you of scum based on you asking questions about lingo and we can move on.

 

[KevinM]

I use the Am I supposed to do all the work line in almost every game >_>.

 

[M3D]

Vote Count
Scamp (4) - Dastrn, Overswarm, Gheb_01, McFox
KevinM (1) - Ignatius
Chill (1) - KevinM
Dastrn (1) - Junglefever
Overswarm (1) - Scamp
Chaco (1) - Kirbyoshi

Not Voting
Chaco, Yeroc, tHe-Man

REPLACED
Chaco

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline: Wednesday, March 31st @ Noon Eastern Time

 

[Yeroc]

I've been kinda sitting back and watching this unfold, but I must say Scamp's attempts at defense don't sit too well with me. There isn't really much more to add. L2 it is.

Vote: Scamp

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Stick by your vote all you want, but the fact of the matter is that you're basing your whole argument on something I never did. I had no problems with any of your questions AT ALL. I really don't care that you're a new player, all I want is for you to stop using it as an excuse to try to say things and then not take full responsibility.

I haven't seen OS try to use n00biness as an excuse for scumminess at all, only as an excuse for asking questions, which is a perfectly good thing to explain by n00biness. Therefore, I have no other recourse than to think you originally voted him because he was trying to justify the fact that he was asking for clarification, which makes you scummy. And since it looks like Chaco has been replaced...

Unvote Chaco, Vote: Scamp

 

[Kirbyoshi]

EBWOP: Meant to mention in my post, Scamp is at L-1, so don't hammer.

 

[McFox]

Let me see if I can sum up the problem I'm currently having.

Like, for example, why don't you put your vote on someone who would give us information?

First, as it stands right now lynching OS would not give us any good information,

But if we were to lynch him there would be six other people voting with me, and there would be information there.

I'm not going to just sit back and try to get along with everyone because I actually want to get things done.

So... what exactly are you getting done by leaving your vote on OS? Your reasons are

• Want to show OS you're srs. - Mission Accomplished, I'd say.
• No reason to take it off. - How about that it's sending very mixed signals? Again, see the above quotes.
• Screw us. - Well, you can keep working on this one.

Do you see the problem here? You're voting for OS for terrible reasons, and when you get voted you go "Oh yeah, well why don't you guys lynch someone better than me? Someone who would give you information." "Well, who would that be Scamp?" "What, do I have to do everything? I don't hold myself to the standard of finding a good lynch that I hold all of you to."

 

[Scamp]

I literally don't know what to say about this. This wagon on me is full of either unexplained reasons or reasons which have already been debunked except they keep being brought back like it's fact.

I've been kinda sitting back and watching this unfold, but I must say Scamp's attempts at defense don't sit too well with me. There isn't really much more to add. L2 it is.

Vote: Scamp

Right, nothing to add. Please explain to me what I'm defending myself from, and what exactly doesn't sit well with you.

I haven't seen OS try to use n00biness as an excuse for scumminess at all, only as an excuse for asking questions, which is a perfectly good thing to explain by n00biness. Therefore, I have no other recourse than to think you originally voted him because he was trying to justify the fact that he was asking for clarification, which makes you scummy. And since it looks like Chaco has been replaced...

Unvote Chaco, Vote: Scamp

I haven't seen OS try to use n00biness as an excuse for scumminess either. Maybe you should actually read posts and figure out what's going on, the reason I voted him should be pretty clear by now.

Let me see if I can sum up the problem I'm currently having.

So... what exactly are you getting done by leaving your vote on OS? Your reasons are

• Want to show OS you're srs. - Mission Accomplished, I'd say.
• No reason to take it off. - How about that it's sending very mixed signals? Again, see the above quotes.
• Screw us. - Well, you can keep working on this one.

Do you see the problem here? You're voting for OS for terrible reasons, and when you get voted you go "Oh yeah, well why don't you guys lynch someone better than me? Someone who would give you information." "Well, who would that be Scamp?" "What, do I have to do everything? I don't hold myself to the standard of finding a good lynch that I hold all of you to."

Yeah I do see the problem here. You took a bunch of statements out of context then orchestrated a conversation that never happened.

When I get voted I ask "why?" and I don't get a good response. All I get is: "You're picking on OS because he's new and asking questions" which in fact I never did and I've repeated that point several times.

Did I ever say: "Why don't you guys lynch someone better than me?" No I did not. All I said was that YOU should place your vote on someone who would give us information instead of demanding that I do.

Who would that be Scamp? Did someone ask me this? Anyway, I have some suspects, but I really need everyone to post before I do anything.

I don't hold myself to the standard of finding a good lynch? Actually, I hold myself to a higher standard because I don't expect other people to find anything. How in the world did you come to this conclusion anyway?

 

[KevinM]

Unvote
Vote the Man

 

[Ignatius]

I'm gonna unvote vote: Junglefever since I haven't seen him in a while.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Unvote Vote Kirbyoshi

 

[Overswarm]

KevinM and Gheb 01, where did your votes come from?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Same reasons as earlier. Scamp already has enough votes for now.

 

[Chaco]

Sorry guys had to work all day yesterday and couldn't get on to post.

 

[Ignatius]

I also want a prod junglefever m3dizzle.

 

[KevinM]

Because I legitimate don't like how tHe-man has handled the game thus far.

 

[Overswarm]

If he can't do anything but vote a hammer, how could he be doing anything else?

Unless we can make him always the hammer vote, but that's kind of off the wall to begin with. He's just a prime suspect for investigation, not for lynching.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hey OS, i think you're beeing a bit too hasty to finalize your lynch decision yet in regards to Scamp. The "he's either dumb or scum so let's lynch him" argument isn't that good. He could just be genuinely wrong. Kirbyo on the other hand has siad stuff that's just flat-out awful and he deserves death. I can also deal with lynching coastin douchebags if anybody's down for that toDay.

 

[Overswarm]

KirbyYo is also a possibility; I consider them both on the same general level at the moment.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Gheb, how could I have said things that are "just flat out awful," yet Scamp could just have been wrong with what he said? I assume you meant my problem with the miller claim, but how come you don't think it just could be that I was wrong there?

 

[Overswarm]

Gheb, how could I have said things that are "just flat out awful," yet Scamp could just have been wrong with what he said? I assume you meant my problem with the miller claim, but how come you don't think it just could be that I was wrong there?

Scum playing dumb would not be unheard of; by definition, someone who is scum has to pretend to not know something they already know anyway. While it isn't likely given my behavior, the actual instance Scamp is referencing is not too surreal.

Yours however is just plain silly.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

If this is your first Mafia game ever, how would you know that what I said is "just plain silly"?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Well, I'm not against either of you being lynched so it doesn't matter. I just think Scamp has enough votes for now.

Lurkers can die too Unvote Vote Chill

 

[Overswarm]

If this is your first Mafia game ever, how would you know that what I said is "just plain silly"?

I have basic mental capacity at worst, capable of banal human logic.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

And what does your anal human logic tell you about what I said to Kevin early in the game?

 

[McFox]

Yes Overswarm, telling us more about this intriguing... anal human logic.

Kev, have you ever seen a scum-aligned role with a restriction like He-Man's?

For now,

Unvote

Vote: Chaco

because seriously man.

Fun Fact!* In the first TMNT game, the Shredder (the coolest role in the game) was "played" by 3, and I say "played" because it was not played. Every single person who played the Shredder coasted madly and did almost nothing.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

1) I think it was stated to not talk about TMNT1 in this game.

2) What "The Shredders" did then has no bearing on what he's doing now (if he's even in this game).

3) Chaco has been inactive in all his games. My guess is he has unexpected comp problems, or impromptu extended V/LA.

 

[M3D]

Junglefever has been prodded.

Chaco is replaced by hilt.

 

[McFox]

1) M3D said

NEW RULE - Since this game is now going to be played outside of the BRoom, please do your best not reveal details about the previous game.

I assumed by "details" he meant actual details about the game's mechanics. My point was just that a cool role went completely unplayed, yet stayed IN play for the entire game. That could apply to any mafia game, it just happened to be the first TMNT game. Couple this with the fact that M3D also said

I would like to actively encourage everyone to pressure players that are inactive and punish them by lynching them if necessary.

It was what passed for a "case" on Chaco, since he literally hadn't said anything besides "Hey guys I'm not here."

2) Correct. That was entirely not the point of what I was saying.

3) I didn't know if he was V/LA or not, but in case he wasn't and was just coasting, I wanted to put some kind of pressure.

But seeing as how he's replaced.

Unvote

Vote: Chill

Feels like I haven't seen him post in a long time.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

Alright, got my role pm. I'm about to head out though, I'll do a reread when I get back and during the day tomorrow. My saturday will be shot as well (as it will be every weekend) just for future reference.

 

[KevinM]

What would people think about a no lynch?

I want people to answer that, with why or why not.

However I would REALLY like Kirbyo to answer first, followed by preferably Gheb.

The order after that is of little to no importance to me.

 

[Scamp]

If this is your first Mafia game ever, how would you know that what I said is "just plain silly"?

This line of questioning is making me even more suspicious of you especially compared to your reasoning to vote for me.


Along with Chill and Bungle, I think Dastrn should be prodded now and I'd like to hear more from him.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't know why you ask this, KevMo. My stance towrds no lynching is pretty well known. I can answer it though if you really insist on it after Kirbyo answers.

 

[DtJ Hilt]

I really don't care that you're a new player, all I want is for you to stop using it as an excuse to try to say things and then not take full responsibility.

But he's not. He's not dodging responsibility. All he was saying was "I'm new, what does this mean?". I'm not saying you're attacking him for that, but you're attacking him for doing something other than that, while that's all he's doing! So basically, you're attacking him for something he's not doing. Show me where he uses the noob card to cover over something, and not ask a question. If he had accused someone of something and went out on a limb for it, risking how town looked at him, and then said "Wait wait guys, I'm just new! It was just a mistake!", then I could understand your point. But he was just saying he was new when asking questions. Your point is invalid, that's why people are voting you.

The rest of how I feel about scamp would just be a parrot of other people's thoughts. Going to do a reread on Iggy and Kirby-Yo, as well as some more rereading in general, I feel I rushed through it all a bit too fast.

My thoughts on the whole Kevin thing. I definitely think it's the right move for miller to claim within the first day, especially if they're a better player, to prevent an early cop claim and for cop to narrow the range of players to search, for scum. I'm not sure whether I believe Kevin or not. That'll come later. As for Kirby-Yo's reaction, I can see how he would react in such a way, as it's generally uncommon (at least from what I've seen) for town to claim that early, and so openly. I don't like how he claimed though, as him claiming does nothing for town. He could easily vote when the person was at L-2 or anything other than the hammer to avoid making it known that he has a role that's good enough for him to lose it if he hammers. It wouldn't be uncommon for mafia to have such a restriction either.

Another thing on you, scamp. In this post, which was made two posts before your OS case, you put a vote on Gheb, claiming him of something you later realized you didn't understand, that it was a misinterpretation of what he said. Which is fine, accidents happen. But you put the vote on him just for that, but when realizing you didn't have a good reason to put it on him, decided to leave it on him because you had a "general dislike of his opinion". You then didn't for two days/pages, when you shifted your vote onto overswarm.

It just looks to me like you're looking for someone to put your vote on for an easy reason so you don't have to bother yourself scum hunting for people who aren't scum.

Requesting Vote Count. I'd like to see where scamp stands vote-wise before I decide to put my vote on him or not.