Easy, go to the thread "So how do casuals and competitives interact".
Every post that states along the lines of "competitive players have more fun" are elitists. Just as every that states "casuals have more fun" are idiots in the same way.
I'm sorry but the OP post gives off the same impression. Anyone that states "Oh of course they started it, and they are the only ones in the wrong" is deluded.
Who said this? Bring me a quote, please.
I've seen "Competitive players have more fun than Scrubs because we don't bind ourselves with scrubby rules" or something to that effect but never "Competitives have more fun than Casual!". I've seen plenty of people stating the opposite, though.
Woah. I'm sorry. Who are you? Yuna had you bent over so far I thought it was him.
People's opinions aren't valid if they happen to agree with me? Too bad so very many do. I guess we're all wrong and you're right.
Trying to make all the casuals like the idiot casuals is... idiot. Is exactly the same point that "all the competitive are elitist". It's just isn't right.
Who is? Certainly no one in this thread.
And again, i thought a scrub was a player who didn't use adv. techs because they think is cheap, or whatever, and so they complain about it. But the scrubs have to be "competitive" (or sort of). I read this somewhere and it explained it well.
No they don't. They
can be competitive (as in "I want to win!") but they can never be truly competitive on a tournament level because of the rules they bind themselves by.
I've explained the true meaning of a Scrub a good 5 times already in this very thread, I believe.
Can someone explain me the EXACT definition of a scrub?
How about you start reading people's posts? MookieRah's explained what a Scrub is as well. If all else fails, Google "Sirlin + "play to win"".
Yeah, you can't say that is elitist. That is true. But it becomes elitist when you put like this...
"look, its clear items negatively effect matches and reward the less talented player, look at this match video. so it's better play my way"
Who's
ever said that? We
have said "From a Competitive/Tournament viewpoint, it is better to play this way".
Why? Because
we're the Competitive people.
We're the people who go to tournaments. So we're
perfectly entitled to write our own rules. It's like saying all sports everywhere are elitist because they all have a ruleset! I mean how
dare competitive soccer not employ banana peels on the field? It'd be more fun after all!
Don't miss the point. The bold sentence is the problem. Competitive players (a lot) will see you down if you don't play like them, because they automatically think is worse than hims..
The bold sentence is imagined.
The true point is: like i said earlier, when you want to have a challengue or try your skill, the competitive is the way to go, and that is an undeniable truth. And that's not a elitist. But when you say that for have FUN you MUST play that way, you are being elitist.
When have we
ever said that you must play "our" way to have fun? Fun is subjective. Everyone can play whichever way they prefer.
I do it my way, you do it your way. But the rulse of competitive gaming are pretty set. If you want a competitive atmosphere of fairness, balance and where the most skilled player almost always wins, "our" way is the way to go.
I've never seen a Competitive player walk into a Casual environment (thread, tournament, gathering, etc.) and start spouting off about them playing the game wrong. It might have happened once or twice or whatever. I
have however seen Casual gamers go onto these boards and spout off about how the Competitives are playing the game wrong. In fact, I've seen it happen a good 10 times in the past three or so weeks.
Also, it goes the same in the other way. The people who says you MUST play with items on because is funnyer are also wrong... They have a point that competitive don't: the game was meant to be played like that. Yet, that's enough a reason to think their way is the best..
Too bad this actually happens while the opposite is seen once every third blue moon or something.
Anyway, someone can be the best in casual tournaments ^_^ in my association we have done two or three of them (a few, really. normally we do competitive tourneys) and is not that bad. And some people who knows how to catch the items in the air and other things (that the competitive people don't do usually) get better places than in competitive tourneys.
Did you just claim that Competitive players do not know how to or at least consciously choose not to catch items in the air? Who
are you and what kind of "competitive" Smashers have you encountered?!
Yeah, i agree with you. yeah, a competitive player is better than a casual player in competitive playing, and usually also in casual playing. BUT WHAT I HATE IS WHEN THE PEOPLE THINKS THEY ARE GODS BECAUSE OF THAT.
Those people are idiots and very few, which is why it's pointless to complain about them the way you and other people do (excessively) because it angers us other Competitive Smashers when so many people say crap like "Comptitive Smashers often say **** about Casual Smashers!" when this simply isn't true.
It's obvious people who say it's bad to play with items on and stuff exist and I've seen them on the internet before. What a stupid thread.
Raise your hand if you hate Yuna.
It's obvious you didn't actually read the original post. That or you need to go and re-read it.
In fact, in the OP itself, it is acknowledged
repeatedly that there
are in fact Elitist Competitives... only their numbers are very small.
This clearly isn't elitism. This person said "I think Competitive players enjoy the game overall more". If one can consider this to be elitism, one can also consider the numerous complaints of "competitive players take all the fun out of the game" to be elitism, causing the count of casual elitists to vastly overshadow that of competitives.
Did you not read what he said after "Why"?
"Because you never hear them complaining about how the casual players play >.>."
So many Casual gamers whine about advanced techniques, edgeguarding, the C-stick and more, as if the mere existence of these things somehow impede on their fun... even if they don't play people who use them often or ever!
Meanwhile, the Competitive Smashers don't actually care about what the Casual Smashers do. I could care less if Joe Blow plays with items on. What does it matter to me? Joe Blow might, however, be mightly pissed by the fact that wavedashing exists.
Seriously. "You started it!" "No, you started it!"
How immature is that?
I understand feeling under attack and having the right to defend yourself but honestly, blaming one side when there are dozens of different opinions on the matter doesn't make any sense, there is casual players who stick up for competitive players and vice versa, so why say the casuals when you could just say the a**holes?
Because even if "they" didn't start it, they're perpetuating it despite the lack of evidence and the many voices telling them they're perpetuating a lie.
The Problem here is that the elitism most people speak of isn't all ways "go screw yourself noob, you don't wavedash so you suck go away you suck face!!!" though that exists, what really happens is that if you come in as a "not as hard core" a competative player, or have a maybe different view, or you might even be casual; either way, If you don't view the game the way the competative players do or have a different standard for what competative is and believe that competative =/= how many buttons you have to press to execute combo, or that you believe that smash can be competative with different techs than horrendous button pressing; they render your views or arguments complete lies, its similar to saying this:
Have you met someone like that? Do you even know of someone who's met someone like that? I can honestly say there are child molesters in the world but their numbers are quite negligent when compared to the rest of society.
Why even whine about such a rare breed of idiots? Do you whine about the existence of rapits everyday? They're rare, you almost never see them and at most, you've heard of someone who's been a victim of one. Why constantly bring it up as if it's a constant pain for you?
-ignores thread to post first, will read later-
I remember VERY vividly the time I met a 'Competetive Elitist'. Didn't get his name, though. It was at Anime Mid-Atlantic. He was very good, but not the best.
He was pretty much hating on everyone not in his little circle of competitive buddies, and actually sent my sister away from the Melee table in tears. He said she deserved it for not playing the game seriously. I got ticked, and we had two matches. First was on Hyrule Temple, he barely won. I requested a rematch, Hyrule Temple not quite being the best stage to determine skill. Second match, Final Destination, I pwned him to kingdom come. He johned about it (I would've won on a different stage!). I don't remember his face, but his attitude is unmistakeable. Plus, he was a Jigglypuff main. Anyone know any villainous Jigglypuff mains around here?
He's mos probably an over-glorified Casual player, over-glorified n00b or a Scrub.
Who, as Jigglypuff, complains about losing on Final Destination unless they're playing a laser-spamming Space Animal?
I hear from many of the (possibly) better players that if I don't play at tournaments, then I'm not "competitive". Whether or not these people are trying to be rude, I feel pushed back from something I wanted to join. Sure, I should just join or start tournaments, but I've tried everything to get tournaments started and so far smasher here generally said "sure why not" and then don't show.
It's fact. You have to go to tournaments to be a competitive player. It's not an insult, it's hard cold facts.
And it's not the Competitive Community's fault if you can't get tournaments started near you because nobody lives here/wants to go there.
And why must everybody come to you? If you really want to join the community, why not go to other tournaments?
Yes, but you see, this is the Brawl disscusion board, and any agrument over elitism relevant to Brawl must be observed. Most of it comes from the dissagreement of whether or not Brawl will be as 'competative' as melee. And being that it is a new game, though still smash, you have two sides: one group applying melee standards still seeing through "the Melee colored glass" if you will, and one group trying to be open minded about it (usually left over casuals from melee who now wish to be competative with the release of brawl).
This has what to do with Elitist Competitive behaviour? We're simply arguing whether the game will be/is as good as Melee. Apparently discussing anything lands you in a the Elitist-column.
I also find it odd that most of the elitists are coming out of the woodwork now that Brawl is about to hit. I think the reason for this, is that they established some small amount of e-cred, and with a new game coming out they feel threatened. I guess its understandable to an extent. But most elitists here, rather, the tourneyf*gs, take it to the extremes.
Lise.
It borders on religious fanaticism. A Smash player must not only compete in tournaments, but also by your own convoluted rules in order to be given any kind of respect from you miserable punks. Its kinda pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that most of you refuse to see what you're saying is in anyway arrogant or just flat out false.
Tell me, why would the
Competitive Community start going around throwing respect for Smash Skill outside of the community? Our respect stems from the fact that we admire how good a player is. In order to prove their skill, they have to enter tournaments.
We're just
respecting some people. We're
not disrespecting anyone.
It's like how all Hindus must be twits for respect Ganghi while not going around throwing random praise at random Hindus everywhere!
Anyway, with Brawl about to launch, you're back to square one. Watching you lash about trying to establish dominance before ever having played the game is so deliciously piquant. I'm thinking of Mookie's choice remarks about the casual crowd at the Gamestop tournament as I say this.
We're trying to establish dominance? And I remember your posts in that thread. You basically misunderstood MookieRah's words severely or you twisted them to suit your convoluted logic.
MookieRah never said "We Competitives need to p0wn the Casuals!". He simply stated "If you want to win by the largest margin, then this is the way to go". Why? Because if you only keep yourself ahead by a small margin, you might randomly lose by an unlucky item spawn or someone's Final Smash. In order to maximize the chances of winning, you have to constantly keep yourself ahead by as many points as possible.
Not only that, from round 4 or whatever, only 4 or 8 players will advance (I don't remember the details)... however, the problem is that at that point, 16 players still remain. How is it determined which 4/8 will advance?
The players with the most points (i.e. "KO's vs. losses of stock")
get to advance. So it's in your very best interest to constantly try to rack up as many points as possible if you want to stand even the smallest chance at advancing to that round.
It's in no way a way to establish dominance over the Casual players. After all, most Competitive players have either already played the game, know someone who doer or have researched the game so much they should already know what the best ways to go about winning in Brawl is. They should not need MookieRah's advice.
Its interesting, really. Its like you're trying to make yourselves believe the things you preach, not everyone else. Which is probably a good thing, since most everyone else isn't listening to you anyway.
Yeah, the interesting thing is that what I just said was said in that very thread (directed at you, I believe)... and in other threads. Not only by MookieRah himself, others and quite possibly me myself. You just don't get it.
Oops, looks like you misspelled tourney*** there.
Don't be so butthurt.
I'm only orally receptive, I don't take it up the tuchas.
I aggree, But there's still a load of Competative players from Melee saying Brawl isn't as competative because it lacks specific button imputs from the last game. That's what im addressing, yes the fundamental advanced techniques (Oxymoron FTW) remain; but that's not enough for these people, they think those button imputs are what defines competative smash, and what they do to the game is what defines competative and anyone who disaggrees is just wrong, it doesn't matter that brawl is still a different game and the advanced button imputs may be different, you're wrong for dissaggreeing with me and the mods support me so STFU. That attitude though based in logic is what people such as Dylan_Tnga thrive on and it is asking for idiots to be spawned, it is the "bud" if you will that we must nip.
No there aren't. We're arguing that Brawl is less competitive because
it lacks options. The ATs from Melee gave us a lot of options. A lot of them are gone now and we haven't seen much to make up for their removal, hence, there are many less options in Brawl.
The more option a game has (depending on which kinds of options as well), the deeper and hence the more competitive it will be.
We could care less if said ATs are actually hard to perform as long as they
existed at all!
I'm sorry for telling you that, but trolling works different. Just check the ED Article for it.
I know enough people who became competetive after they've played for 2-3 months. At some point you don't need no new knowledge, but experience. If you can stay at the endurance run you will improve a lot. Have you ever played Go/Baduk? It works like every good game. Rules are easy to learn in 5 minutes, but the game needs years to master.
Did you just tell us to read Encoclypedia Dramatica to learn facts?
I play Go/Baduk. Do
you?
Tell me, dear sir, how good can a player get at Go/Baduk simply by playing a whole bunch of 20 kyus every day for a whole year? Meanwhile, we have another player who plays players of all strengths, especially stronger and much stronger ones, though with less frequency. Which player do you think will be the strongest after that one year if they are both equally strong and have about the same learning abilities?
The one who played only weak players or the one who went to tournaments and competitive places like Go Salons and played really strong ones (and then read Go books on Tsumego, Tesuji, Fuseki, Joseki and more)?
I never said something about the level, that was your throw-in. It is easy for me to compare with Go. You learn from strong players very quick. Habits, Priorities and Technics. To make it simple: One time you'll for sure play against a weaker gamer in the Brawl Random Matches. If you want it or not, you'll improve him with every attack. Even when he's just getting a sense about the advanced technics and will search for it on the internet.
Like said in my first posting. The competition will grow and imo that's the reason for the outcry in many different ways.
Only the level of play over "With Anyone" will be quite low. Why? Because Competitive Players do not actively seek out Casual Players for games. Why would we? It's not Elitism, it's wishing to play someone if equal or greater strength.
We do not need the ego boost that comes with ground-stomping someone obviously inferior to you. As such, we do not actively seek out weaker players to play against if we can help it. And that's what "With Friends" are for. The Competitive players will play against each other in "With Friends".
Other reasons why Competitive Players won't show in "With Anyone" very often:
* Lag. The more players, the greater the lag. Lag destroys competitive play and we hate it.
* 4-man FFA, 2 minute time and only a 25% chance that you'll get to play on your preferred stage and with your preferred item settings. Yeah, not something your average Competitive Player would find fun.
You won't be seeing the likes of Ken, PC Chris and Mango on "With Anyone" frequently if ever, that's for sure.
play this game competitively, but don't be an a-hole when you improve. Everyone was once a scrub. BUT, don't lose to someone who plays competitively, and say, "aw, you play too much." no, the correct answer is "aw, i don't play this awesome game enough"
Almost everyone was once a Newbie or a Casual. Not everyone was once a Scrub. For more information, visit your local Google.
"Just like if I punch a girl tomorrow, it doesn't mean that I hate all women everywhere."
Yeah, but punching a woman still makes you a douchebag.
Only stupid people say "A man can never hit a woman, ever". If the woman throws the first punch, then it's OK because, hello, self-defense (though a 200 pound man should be careful about the amount of force he usese on
anyone, man or woman). If the woman is bigger than you, then I see no problem. I mean, shes' stronger, why should I be called villain when the odds are in her favour?
As long as you have a good reason, then it's OK to punch someone, man or woman. Equal rights brings with it equal responsibility. If you punch me, I will punch you back (how hard depends) no matter who you are!
You're still a human being! With humans rights and human responsibilities. If you do something bad, you have to take responsibility for it and not hide behind your gender!
Nobody answers me, ok. Thanks for nothing >_>*
I believe two people actually answered you between this post and the one you posted in this thread before it.
Because you're the ones complaining about being called elitist. To challenge that, this thread was created, which actually seems to have accomplished nothing except make the forum seem more elitist with its stupid "challenge" and how it completley misses how the idea that you guys are elitist came about.
It's not because you have elitist thoughts, necessarily.
It's because you act elitist.
I made a chellenge to people to prove their thesis. How elitist of me.
plasmatorture;4061464 The burden of change is on [I said:
your shoulders[/I].
Change how you act or grow tougher and not let people calling you elitist bug you.
The burden is on the shoulders of the
victims?!
Why must we go out of our way and always be nice, calm, collected and gentle because some people have
misconceptions?! The burden of proof is on whoever's making accusations!
programmed in censor[/I]. Not sure how you can get more PC than that.
It's still easy to see what word people wanted to use if only a part of the word is censored.
, but it has A point. They play his way and we lpay our way (terrible translation), but is a great truth.
