The Official Kentucky Brawl Power Rankings: PR is officially up

[Ralph Cecil]

I can join if you guys want me to. :x

 

[Mister Eric]

I can join if you guys want me to. :x

By all means. I just want us all on the same page.

 

[Kel]

Kel Cp'd D3 against me and beat me...

Not at the UK tournament in question, I went Marth, didn't I? I don't remember because I was all over the place that day picking Ics, D3, and others that I don't remember. I think the only time I CPed D3 against you was at How the Midwest was won because you were still playing back then and had Marth downloaded. I may have to pick D3 again against you when you get on point vs Marth again, but I'm trying to just go Marth now.

BTW, I don't pick D3 because you're ROB. I would never pick D3 against OS' ROB. I CP D3 because he beats your playstyle.

 

[Mister Eric]

Was just vouching for your D3 ;D
And I practiced a fair bit against D3 last weekend. Maybe we can try it out today.

 

[Judo777]

What really counts as a win, or serious tournament, is if there was actual money on the line, if there isn't, then it's not a legit tournament. A gift card and a shirt for prizes? Does that mean I get to use my anime con tournament results?

A gift card is money. Also Japan never plays for money.

 

[KassandraNova]

A gift card is money. Also Japan never plays for money.

Japan is different. 0_0

I understand it's money but... Ugh just doesn't seem as legit. LOL I suppose we can makes the pay out amounts important. I wonder if MX used his anime con tournament results to get on the top 5 yoshi list or OH PR since he won a 100 person tournament at an anime con and won a shirt and a gift card. Should still be legit right? Damn. I need to go to more anime cons so I can give more legit results.

 

[What's The Point]

If you pay money to enter it should count. Unlesds rule changes that make it uncompetitive, or just too different from normal tournaments.

Also who you beat and lost to is more important. Anime cons usually consist of 3 tournament smashets then tons of convention goers.

 

[Mister Eric]

^
tha t

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Kassy, did MX beat any legit players at the anime con? If not, then it doesn't matter.

If we were to count all anime cons and that sort of thing, I'd be like, 3rd best Marvel player here. But since there was no one legit there, it doesn't matter.

Also, Ralph, just because you don't pick your main in a set doesn't mean you weren't trying. I went D3 against S2, and it doesn't mean I wasn't trying. I did it because I know his DK, and I have a decent D3.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

People keep thinking I'm only saying maining the character. QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ

I've been saying if you don't play them at all. D= It's seems like a really simple concept to me. If you go a character that you don't play then it seems hard to believe that you're trying. Also I wasn't even saying that everyone that chose D3 against him wasn't trying. I was just talking about how his evidence of people trying against him was that they chose D3, and as far as I know there aren't many people in KY who play D3 seriously outside of Kel(which now that I think about i'm not even sure how seriously that would be o-o). Also if you beat him when you chose D3 then there's really not anything to worry about since the only thing we are trying to figure out is how legitimate/special/important his wins are.

Also what WTP said. =p

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Ralph, you're seriously underestimating how bad people think the D3:DK matchup is. People legitimately think it's unwinnable. Those are serious counterpicks, and they do it because they are trying to win. It's like when I play Falco players and I pick Ice Climbers. I'm not doing it to have fun. I'm legitimately picking them because I feel it gives me the best chance of winning. I don't main or secondary them.

 

[KassandraNova]

If you pay money to enter it should count. Unlesds rule changes that make it uncompetitive, or just too different from normal tournaments.

Also who you beat and lost to is more important. Anime cons usually consist of 3 tournament smashets then tons of convention goers.

LOL yup. Mx beat hilt and Lumi at that I believe. Haha and I wasn't being serious.
XD

Ralph has a point. Beating kels d3 and beating his mk are two totally different things, but you guys are treating them like they are one in the same, that's all he's trying to say.

 

[Mister Eric]

what time are you smashfesting sp? i may come over sooner

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Ralph, you're seriously underestimating how bad people think the D3:DK matchup is. People legitimately think it's unwinnable. Those are serious counterpicks, and they do it because they are trying to win. It's like when I play Falco players and I pick Ice Climbers. I'm not doing it to have fun. I'm legitimately picking them because I feel it gives me the best chance of winning. I don't main or secondary them.

Also I wasn't even saying that everyone that chose D3 against him wasn't trying.

:u
How was I underestimating how bad people thought the mu was?

Also I get that they are serious counterpicks, but i'm pretty sure that they are serious when both players know what they are doing with those characters lol.

 

[What's The Point]

Ralph has a point. Beating kels d3 and beating his mk are two totally different things, but you guys are treating them like they are one in the same, that's all he's trying to say.

If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.

Exceptions can of course happen if the player starts puking mid match or other completely legit reasons.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.

Exceptions can of course happen if the player starts puking mid match or other completely legit reasons.

Unless I knew it was to specifically counter something/someone I would think he was trolling/sandbagging personally. o-o It would be like if I were to see Luminoth's Jigglypuff in results. Sure I know he has one, but I would think he would go Wolf if he wanted to win.

I actually did see him cp someone with Jiggs though lol. At least I think he was cping with Jiggs. o-o

 

[What's The Point]

But for rankings you can't assume things like that. Otherwise everyone was just sandbagging when they lose. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Yeah I know, but a win against someone who chooses a character that they don't play just because it is a bad mu isn't an important win, and that's what we are trying to look for here. =p You could beat M2K's Ganondorf in a set and sey "Hey I beat M2K!", but that wouldn't be as impressive if you were to say "Hey I beat M2K's Ganon!"

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Also, WTP is right. It doesn't matter who your opponent chose, a loss is a loss. It just means that they made a bad choice before the game, as opposed to during it. Do you guys want to discredit Joey's win against Judo, because Judo used Snake/GW as opposed to Sheik? No? Why not? It's the same situation.

 

[Juushichi]

But SP, it's different.

We know Judo wasn't sandbagging. :x

 

[Ralph Cecil]

Also, WTP is right. It doesn't matter who your opponent chose, a loss is a loss. It just means that they made a bad choice before the game, as opposed to during it. Do you guys want to discredit Joey's win against Judo, because Judo used Snake/GW as opposed to Sheik? No? Why not? It's the same situation.

Doesn't Judo legitimately use those 2 as secondaries though(Not sure about G&W, but i'm almost entirely certain about Snake)? :V It feels like it might be a different situation.

Also whose D3 did S2 even beat lol?

 

[What's The Point]

M2K going Ganon is pretty much the most extreme example of a good player using.a character they don't use. Yes in situation like that you can discredit wins. But when it's something reasonable, like Judo vs Joey example or a scenario where Kel CPs D3 on some one (especially if MK is banned) you should treat it as a fair win.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

MtK going Ganon is pretty much the most extreme example of a good player using.a character they don't use. Yes in situation like that you can discredit wins. But when it's something reasonable, like Judo vs Joey example or a scenario where Kel CPs D3 on some one (esoecially if MK is banned) you should treat it as a fair win.

Yeah I know lol. I tend to do extremes just so people grab the concept, so sry about that. =p I still feel it applies to just about any character M2K could choose though. Also I think we might be on the same page/thinking the same thing and just misunderstood eachother lol. See Judo uses Snake/G&W, and Kel has been known to use D3 in tournament before. In those situations they both use the characters they've CP'd, and I do see those as fair wins. My problem is justifying a win on someone, because you beat them when they CP'd you with a character they don't use just because it's a hard mu lol.

 

[What's The Point]

My problem is justifying a win on someone, because you beat them when they CP'd you with a character they don't use just because it's a hard mu lol.

The CPer clearly thought their best chance to win was to pick a heavy CP. You aren't going to hard CP if you are sandbagging and aren't trying to win. You beat the player, not the character.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Uh, in that tourney, I think the only people to use D3 on S2 were Kel and I. And he beat Kel's D3.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

aeilutdhldsurghdiulhea Ok I think there's just confusion going on so i'm just going to try and cover everything and see if anything gets cleared.

I didn't drop a single set in Bracket that day, despite having DDD picked on me as well as having to play on my two worst stages (Smashville and FD) all day. The point is that discounting that tourney because of the ruleset favoring some character (which are not mine) or no one taking it seriously (I guess people only pick DDD in friendlies) is silly.

Ok so it starts here-ish. He states it's a serious tournament, because people chose D3 against him. Unless he beat Kel who plays D3, any other D3 he would've beaten was more than likely either not that great of a player in the first place(Not a win worth mentioning), or they were more than likely not trying that hard(Because why else would a good player be trying to win against someone else who is considered a good player by picking a random character they don't even play? It honestly would sound like nothing more than trolling if this were the case). Essentially i'm giving anyone worth calling a notable win enough credit to realize that they aren't going to beat anyone good with a character they don't play just because it's considered a bad mu. Now unless they for some a good player really thought like this I would feel like it's safe to assume that just because people were choosing D3 doesn't really guarantee that it was a serious tournament or that people were trying like he tried to imply. Again not saying no one didn't try at the tournament. I'm just saying that just because someone chose D3 against him that's not enough evidence to really suggest that everyone he played/beat was trying or taking that tourney seriously.

Unless the D3 is doing the infinite, which I wouldn't expect from some guy just picking D3 because it's DK, it's not so bad. Would be around ROB level. It's definitely not near Wolf or Wario levels of counterpickness.

^^^^^^^^^This just kind of furthers my point on a good player trying by CPing D3 against him just because of mu.

The thing with that tournament S2 is that, based on what you're saying, NO ONE went their main or secondary against you. If they're not using their main or secondary, then either A) everyone thinks they're better than you enough to where they can use DDD in a seriously legit match to win against you... or B) They were taking the tournament as a joke and just did it for fun.

Also considering the fact that placements don't matter at all when compared to who you beat... It'd be really hard to put that into rankings considering the fact that they're using a character that they're WAY less skilled with compared to their mains when they play against you. :/.

Just my thoughts.

^^^^This whole post pretty much.

Yo Joey, most people only went D3 one game against him if they did. Most people did play their mains against him in at least one game.

To this unless someone has a history of throwing out characters they don't play just because it's a bad mu in important sets, then I would think it's safe to assume that the player is probably sandbagging or as Joey said thinks so little of them that they could beat them even if the sandbagged for a game.

But.....Kel's D3 is really good, so you cant just say his wins dont matter, that is Kel's legit CP vs DK because DK does really well against Marth.

And No screw that. You basically just jphned for everyone at the tourney saying "if they didn't play their main they were obviously sandbagging."

And that was the best prize for a tourney ever (except the blimpie giftcard I got was for a store that went out of business before the tourney started).

I'm not really sure if anyone said that Kel didn't play D3, and I feel like this post may have been where some confusion started. He seemed to think other thought that you couldn't play secondaries with out being considered sandbagging, and I think others probably started talking with the same misconception since he was taking their side. o-o

Ralph, you're seriously underestimating how bad people think the D3:DK matchup is. People legitimately think it's unwinnable. Those are serious counterpicks, and they do it because they are trying to win. It's like when I play Falco players and I pick Ice Climbers. I'm not doing it to have fun. I'm legitimately picking them because I feel it gives me the best chance of winning. I don't main or secondary them.

Again this seems to have branched from the not main then not trying thing. Also it comes back to my point that anyone who is considered a good player probably wasn't taking it serious unless for some reason they actually thought it was that easy, but I would really like to give them more credit than that.

Ralph has a point. Beating kels d3 and beating his mk are two totally different things, but you guys are treating them like they are one in the same, that's all he's trying to say.

This concept kind of holds, but more so with the extreme Ganon thing I did(Which is interchangeable with just any other character they don't play) since he doesn't play that character.

If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.

Exceptions can of course happen if the player starts puking mid match or other completely legit reasons.

Not saying he's not trying by going a secondary.

But for rankings you can't assume things like that. Otherwise everyone was just sandbagging when they lose. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.

Feel like this probably branched from the same misconception and that we kind of already gone over whether it's a win worth considering thing.

Also, WTP is right. It doesn't matter who your opponent chose, a loss is a loss. It just means that they made a bad choice before the game, as opposed to during it. Do you guys want to discredit Joey's win against Judo, because Judo used Snake/GW as opposed to Sheik? No? Why not? It's the same situation.

Already covered this.

M2K going Ganon is pretty much the most extreme example of a good player using.a character they don't use. Yes in situation like that you can discredit wins. But when it's something reasonable, like Judo vs Joey example or a scenario where Kel CPs D3 on some one (especially if MK is banned) you should treat it as a fair win.

Already covered this.

The CPer clearly thought their best chance to win was to pick a heavy CP. You aren't going to hard CP if you are sandbagging and aren't trying to win. You beat the player, not the character.

Not saying he's not trying. Already kind of covered this in the beginning with the giving credit to good players bit.




I hope I didn't get confused on the way trying to figure out what happened. >_<

EDIT:

Uh, in that tourney, I think the only people to use D3 on S2 were Kel and I. And he beat Kel's D3.

kk I think I kind of already covered this a bit in what I posted. o-o Also that kind of clears things up a bit better since we know who it was and that they actually use that character. =p Kind of doesn't really cover the motivation bit, but i'm sure we could always just talk about that during that discussion meeting thing. =p Also i'm getting lazy to go on about this right now. -_-

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

Also, as to discussing things, I'd rather July 25th at 5 PM, as opposed to 8 PM. I've got work at 10 -_-

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I think Nova said that time wouldn't work for her. o-o Maybe a bit later than 5 or earlier than 8. If anything it could even be on a different day.

 

[DtJ S2n]

[collapse=Opinion on this dicussion]

I can't even think of a serious response. **** like this is why it's so hard to take this PR seriously[/collapse]

The last thing I want to see in the KY PR thread is talk about DK mus. <_<

Actually the best post in the entire thread

 

[MegaRobMan]

lol This thread is awesome.

I'm gonna start counting friendlies for the Nebraska PR's.

 

[DtJ Composer]

I based the entirety of the IN PR on how good I am at marvel.

 

[Judo777]

But SP, it's different.

We know Judo wasn't sandbagging. :x

No I was totally sandbagging. You guys know me, I love manipulating brackets, splitting and forfeiting for yellow cards lol

 

[KassandraNova]

I can do 8pm.

Also if we start taking wins in free entry tournaments that have gift card prizes, and peolple using secondaries as serious wins over real tounaments then I'm going to be disappointed...
-_-

I understand that beating someone's secondary is still a win, but come on. We know it's not as great as someone using they're main. I mean i personally I hate it when people sand bag against me. *kanye shrug*

That's just my opinion. I'm sure we can work it all out in the group talk we have. ^_^ are we doing Skype?

 

[Dooms]

Potential panelists,
We need order. I suggest we schedule a meeting and work some things out -- some structured guidelines to running this PR. I'm going to throw out a day and time and we can work with it as needed.

Wednesday, July 25th
5:00 PM

Let me know if this is a convenient time. If not, post one.

If I'm a panelist, then I won't be able to. Marching band goes until 9 PM.

Every weekday that week.

.

Edit: Actually... Scratch me off the panelist list. Not really interested when I think about it lol.

 

[sneakytako]

Ok so it starts here-ish. He states it's a serious tournament, because people chose D3 against him. Unless he beat Kel who plays D3, any other D3 he would've beaten was more than likely either not that great of a player in the first place(Not a win worth mentioning),

I see how it is.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

I see how it is.

=O I didn't think you would be at such a small Ky local.

 

[ShadowPhoenix951]

He wasn't.

 

[Ralph Cecil]

If I'm a panelist, then I won't be able to. Marching band goes until 9 PM.

Every weekday that week.

.

Edit: Actually... Scratch me off the panelist list. Not really interested when I think about it lol.

What? ;(

He wasn't.

Oh asiufihjerkljgiulshaw

 

[Rob_Gambino]

Saying a tournament with a prize shouldn't count when they are known Kentucky players there is silly. Taking away wins/losses between 2 known players is even worse. All of the reasons like D3 isn't someone's main char, prize money too low, I wasn't trying, probably thought you were bad etc are all JOHNS. That person earned their win despite whatever excuse can come up.

The more tournies there are to look at, the more accurate, less biased, and easier it will be to make your PR.

If you're going to take some people's johns for losses into considerations and not others, you will without question have unnecessary bias.

 

[KassandraNova]

If there isn't money on the line, then the match shouldn't be taken seriously. Is the point I'm tryin to make. That's pretty much it.