Ralph Cecil
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2010
- Messages
- 2,416
- Location
- Somewhere in KY QQQQQQQQQQ
- NNID
- RalphCecil
- 3DS FC
- 4098-4850-8033
I can join if you guys want me to. :x
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By all means. I just want us all on the same page.I can join if you guys want me to. :x
Not at the UK tournament in question, I went Marth, didn't I? I don't remember because I was all over the place that day picking Ics, D3, and others that I don't remember. I think the only time I CPed D3 against you was at How the Midwest was won because you were still playing back then and had Marth downloaded. I may have to pick D3 again against you when you get on point vs Marth again, but I'm trying to just go Marth now.Kel Cp'd D3 against me and beat me...
A gift card is money. Also Japan never plays for money.What really counts as a win, or serious tournament, is if there was actual money on the line, if there isn't, then it's not a legit tournament. A gift card and a shirt for prizes? Does that mean I get to use my anime con tournament results?
Japan is different. 0_0A gift card is money. Also Japan never plays for money.
LOL yup. Mx beat hilt and Lumi at that I believe. Haha and I wasn't being serious.If you pay money to enter it should count. Unlesds rule changes that make it uncompetitive, or just too different from normal tournaments.
Also who you beat and lost to is more important. Anime cons usually consist of 3 tournament smashets then tons of convention goers.
Ralph, you're seriously underestimating how bad people think the D3:DK matchup is. People legitimately think it's unwinnable. Those are serious counterpicks, and they do it because they are trying to win. It's like when I play Falco players and I pick Ice Climbers. I'm not doing it to have fun. I'm legitimately picking them because I feel it gives me the best chance of winning. I don't main or secondary them.
:uAlso I wasn't even saying that everyone that chose D3 against him wasn't trying.
If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.Ralph has a point. Beating kels d3 and beating his mk are two totally different things, but you guys are treating them like they are one in the same, that's all he's trying to say.
Unless I knew it was to specifically counter something/someone I would think he was trolling/sandbagging personally. o-o It would be like if I were to see Luminoth's Jigglypuff in results. Sure I know he has one, but I would think he would go Wolf if he wanted to win.If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.
Exceptions can of course happen if the player starts puking mid match or other completely legit reasons.
Doesn't Judo legitimately use those 2 as secondaries though(Not sure about G&W, but i'm almost entirely certain about Snake)? :V It feels like it might be a different situation.Also, WTP is right. It doesn't matter who your opponent chose, a loss is a loss. It just means that they made a bad choice before the game, as opposed to during it. Do you guys want to discredit Joey's win against Judo, because Judo used Snake/GW as opposed to Sheik? No? Why not? It's the same situation.
Yeah I know lol. I tend to do extremes just so people grab the concept, so sry about that. =p I still feel it applies to just about any character M2K could choose though. Also I think we might be on the same page/thinking the same thing and just misunderstood eachother lol. See Judo uses Snake/G&W, and Kel has been known to use D3 in tournament before. In those situations they both use the characters they've CP'd, and I do see those as fair wins. My problem is justifying a win on someone, because you beat them when they CP'd you with a character they don't use just because it's a hard mu lol.MtK going Ganon is pretty much the most extreme example of a good player using.a character they don't use. Yes in situation like that you can discredit wins. But when it's something reasonable, like Judo vs Joey example or a scenario where Kel CPs D3 on some one (esoecially if MK is banned) you should treat it as a fair win.
The CPer clearly thought their best chance to win was to pick a heavy CP. You aren't going to hard CP if you are sandbagging and aren't trying to win. You beat the player, not the character.Ralph Cecil said:My problem is justifying a win on someone, because you beat them when they CP'd you with a character they don't use just because it's a hard mu lol.
Ok so it starts here-ish. He states it's a serious tournament, because people chose D3 against him. Unless he beat Kel who plays D3, any other D3 he would've beaten was more than likely either not that great of a player in the first place(Not a win worth mentioning), or they were more than likely not trying that hard(Because why else would a good player be trying to win against someone else who is considered a good player by picking a random character they don't even play? It honestly would sound like nothing more than trolling if this were the case). Essentially i'm giving anyone worth calling a notable win enough credit to realize that they aren't going to beat anyone good with a character they don't play just because it's considered a bad mu. Now unless they for some a good player really thought like this I would feel like it's safe to assume that just because people were choosing D3 doesn't really guarantee that it was a serious tournament or that people were trying like he tried to imply. Again not saying no one didn't try at the tournament. I'm just saying that just because someone chose D3 against him that's not enough evidence to really suggest that everyone he played/beat was trying or taking that tourney seriously.I didn't drop a single set in Bracket that day, despite having DDD picked on me as well as having to play on my two worst stages (Smashville and FD) all day. The point is that discounting that tourney because of the ruleset favoring some character (which are not mine) or no one taking it seriously (I guess people only pick DDD in friendlies) is silly.
^^^^^^^^^This just kind of furthers my point on a good player trying by CPing D3 against him just because of mu.Unless the D3 is doing the infinite, which I wouldn't expect from some guy just picking D3 because it's DK, it's not so bad. Would be around ROB level. It's definitely not near Wolf or Wario levels of counterpickness.
^^^^This whole post pretty much.The thing with that tournament S2 is that, based on what you're saying, NO ONE went their main or secondary against you. If they're not using their main or secondary, then either A) everyone thinks they're better than you enough to where they can use DDD in a seriously legit match to win against you... or B) They were taking the tournament as a joke and just did it for fun.
Also considering the fact that placements don't matter at all when compared to who you beat... It'd be really hard to put that into rankings considering the fact that they're using a character that they're WAY less skilled with compared to their mains when they play against you. :/.
Just my thoughts.
To this unless someone has a history of throwing out characters they don't play just because it's a bad mu in important sets, then I would think it's safe to assume that the player is probably sandbagging or as Joey said thinks so little of them that they could beat them even if the sandbagged for a game.Yo Joey, most people only went D3 one game against him if they did. Most people did play their mains against him in at least one game.
I'm not really sure if anyone said that Kel didn't play D3, and I feel like this post may have been where some confusion started. He seemed to think other thought that you couldn't play secondaries with out being considered sandbagging, and I think others probably started talking with the same misconception since he was taking their side. o-oBut.....Kel's D3 is really good, so you cant just say his wins dont matter, that is Kel's legit CP vs DK because DK does really well against Marth.
And No screw that. You basically just jphned for everyone at the tourney saying "if they didn't play their main they were obviously sandbagging."
And that was the best prize for a tourney ever (except the blimpie giftcard I got was for a store that went out of business before the tourney started).
Again this seems to have branched from the not main then not trying thing. Also it comes back to my point that anyone who is considered a good player probably wasn't taking it serious unless for some reason they actually thought it was that easy, but I would really like to give them more credit than that.Ralph, you're seriously underestimating how bad people think the D3:DK matchup is. People legitimately think it's unwinnable. Those are serious counterpicks, and they do it because they are trying to win. It's like when I play Falco players and I pick Ice Climbers. I'm not doing it to have fun. I'm legitimately picking them because I feel it gives me the best chance of winning. I don't main or secondary them.
This concept kind of holds, but more so with the extreme Ganon thing I did(Which is interchangeable with just any other character they don't play) since he doesn't play that character.Ralph has a point. Beating kels d3 and beating his mk are two totally different things, but you guys are treating them like they are one in the same, that's all he's trying to say.
Not saying he's not trying by going a secondary.If Kel chooses to enter a tournament and goes D3 you assume that is what he thought gave him the best chance to win. You can't try and find johns in results because then anyone can just say they weren't trying, or any.other amount of johns, when they lost.
Exceptions can of course happen if the player starts puking mid match or other completely legit reasons.
Feel like this probably branched from the same misconception and that we kind of already gone over whether it's a win worth considering thing.But for rankings you can't assume things like that. Otherwise everyone was just sandbagging when they lose. A win is a win and a loss is a loss.
Already covered this.Also, WTP is right. It doesn't matter who your opponent chose, a loss is a loss. It just means that they made a bad choice before the game, as opposed to during it. Do you guys want to discredit Joey's win against Judo, because Judo used Snake/GW as opposed to Sheik? No? Why not? It's the same situation.
Already covered this.M2K going Ganon is pretty much the most extreme example of a good player using.a character they don't use. Yes in situation like that you can discredit wins. But when it's something reasonable, like Judo vs Joey example or a scenario where Kel CPs D3 on some one (especially if MK is banned) you should treat it as a fair win.
Not saying he's not trying. Already kind of covered this in the beginning with the giving credit to good players bit.The CPer clearly thought their best chance to win was to pick a heavy CP. You aren't going to hard CP if you are sandbagging and aren't trying to win. You beat the player, not the character.
kk I think I kind of already covered this a bit in what I posted. o-o Also that kind of clears things up a bit better since we know who it was and that they actually use that character. =p Kind of doesn't really cover the motivation bit, but i'm sure we could always just talk about that during that discussion meeting thing. =p Also i'm getting lazy to go on about this right now. -_-Uh, in that tourney, I think the only people to use D3 on S2 were Kel and I. And he beat Kel's D3.
Actually the best post in the entire threadThe last thing I want to see in the KY PR thread is talk about DK mus. <_<
No I was totally sandbagging. You guys know me, I love manipulating brackets, splitting and forfeiting for yellow cards lolBut SP, it's different.
We know Judo wasn't sandbagging. :x
If I'm a panelist, then I won't be able to. Marching band goes until 9 PM.Potential panelists,
We need order. I suggest we schedule a meeting and work some things out -- some structured guidelines to running this PR. I'm going to throw out a day and time and we can work with it as needed.
Wednesday, July 25th
5:00 PM
Let me know if this is a convenient time. If not, post one.
I see how it is.Ok so it starts here-ish. He states it's a serious tournament, because people chose D3 against him. Unless he beat Kel who plays D3, any other D3 he would've beaten was more than likely either not that great of a player in the first place(Not a win worth mentioning),
=O I didn't think you would be at such a small Ky local.I see how it is.
What? ;(If I'm a panelist, then I won't be able to. Marching band goes until 9 PM.
Every weekday that week.
.
Edit: Actually... Scratch me off the panelist list. Not really interested when I think about it lol.
Oh asiufihjerkljgiulshawHe wasn't.