Zelda Matchup Thread // OUTDATED

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I've played enough really touch peaches to know that:

I think the matchup is 55:45 peach or 60:40 peach but certainly no worse for peach than 50:50.

Peach has a HUGE advantage aerially

Zelda DOES have the advantage on the ground.

Peach is at a dissadvantage because, in order to effectively approach, she must bait zelda.

This advantage is removed and then some by the fact that there is really no one better than baiting Zelda than peach.

(an important consideration about the above two points is that, as skill increases, Zelda is less likely to fall for a bait.... but peaches don't really get much better at baiting)

Peach is not a hard target for lightning kicks...... she's just really good at protecting herself... so it's not really worth it.

Niether can edgeguard the other...... 99% of the time what happens when peach floats out to edgeguard zelda, is that zelda will just warp past her.... peach can normally still come back with a bair, or, if she realizes more quickly, can land and grab zelda and bthrow off the edge.... but occasionally zelda will connect with farore's reapearence hitbox or sweetspot the ledge.




all that I've said seems to favour zelda.... but, really, once peach manages to bait something, which she will do, peach can innitate juggles and really put a hurtin on zelda... Peach needs to really play a pressure oriented game here, but, if she does, she has the advantage.

 

[Villi]

What?

I listed her approaches. Anyway, Raph listed the same ones and more.

Zelda can b-reverse her Din's so that she can run away and then immediately turn around and Din's Fire. It creates more distance away and comes out faster than a retreating short hop.

Anyway, I'll take a shield grab once and punish a grab whiff later. It's not a big deal. Zelda can punish approaches too.

And aprroaching is one of the most important things in this game. if you cant really approach someone, it will make the fight hard. Of if you dont have a very good one. The dast attacking one is foolish. You are asking for an easy shield grab. if anything Peach would win that Fight since her Dash attack have 2 hits and priority. and kick azz range. you air doge an turnip near me and you are left open for Peach to hit you.

These are all the ways Peach can approach someone.

- Fair
- FC>Fair
- Dair
- FC>Dair
- FC>Nair
- Turnip>Fair
- FC>Turnip>Fair
- Bair
- Glide tossing
- Nair

Advance approaches:

- Glide toss> FC>Nair
- Glide toss>reverse bair
- Glide toss>Nair
- Reverse Glide toss> Dsmash or Fsmash
- Reverse Glide toss> Bair

Peach wins this part of the battle. She can also edgeguard her well. And she is great with her spacing and becomes hard to hit. She is also great at pressuring the hell out of someone. He will eat more than have your shield. Also her priority on some of her attacks are great.

Their dash attacks will trade. Zelda's does more damage and has more knockback than Peach's first strike. Nobody has to approach anyone, really. Zelda can just wait for Peach to screw up or get impatient.

She can get under Peach's fairs with usmash, which outprioritizes all her aerials. If Peach is floating above usmash range, she can just uair and take a weak bair if she misses.

Usmash oos works beautifully against a floated dair.

Turnip fair is a mind game. She just has to know a fair is coming after the turnip and shield grab.

Fsmash, jab, and dash attack out prioritize most of Peach's aerial approaches except a spaced fair. Utilt will trade with a fair and kills sooner.

Glide tosses that close can be sidestep dsmashed. You can gimme 6 damage with your jab combo unless you go for the reverse thingies, then you can eat my dsmash.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Zelda beats up the icies something AWFUL....

1. she outprioritizes and outranges pretty much their everything... She EASILY outpowers them, and they aren't heavy to begin with.
   
2. her attack's all have GREAT mobbing properties... if she catches one ice climber, there's a VERY high chance she'll catach the other becasue the hitbox durration will lengthen even MORE and it stays gigantic in range.
   
3. Ice climber's aerial game is NOT very good... in fact, it does nothing to deter zelda from trying to sweetspot her fair, bair or uair... and, with two icies, Zelda has a HIGH probability of landing it on at least one of them.
   
4. Icies lack a decent approach against her.
   
5. Icies absolutely cannot initiate any air-to-ground assault on her... usmash, fsmash and utilt will end them.
   
6. The icies are only so good for their EXCELENT chain grabs... however, Zelda is one of the HARDEST characters to grab (thanks, primarily to Nayru's and Dsmash) And icies poor grab range only helps this more.
   
7. overall... icies have a HARD time getting inside zelda... they really do... and they HAVE to get inside her attacks, because she can just sit outside of theirs and continue to assault with her longer range.... and once they ARE inside... they don't have too many effective options...
   
8. ZELDA, on the other hand, gains specific advantages over the iceclibers' playsyle...

final opinion: 70:30 Zelda

 

[SinkingHigher]

Yeah. Ice climbers are ghey.

However, if they get you in that 0-death grab of theirs, you're pretty screwed.

Honestly, even though Zelda apparently has the upper hand (never tried Zelda against them), I find them really easy to deal with as Sheik. Sheik's quick enough to seperate the two, and once they're seperated it's easy pickin's. Like, Zelda has a lot of strong attacks, but they're kinda all over (U-smash, F-smash, D-smash, U-tilt, U-air, N-air, etc...) which makes it hard to seperate them, but with her power, I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[Oh Snap]

Can't IC's CG Zelda? ;~;

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Can't IC's CG Zelda? ;~;

ummmm... icies can CG everyone... it's the only thing keeping them so high on the tier list.... Zelda is, in fact, one of the HARDEST charachters to innitiate a grab on.... (the combination of NL and Dsmash with IC's awful grab range sees to that)... and any failure on the part of the ICs... be it tripping or missing a grab can result in lighting kick retribution

 

[TigerWoods]

I feel it is kind of a Hail Mary Pass game for the IC's....

Grabs aren't really going to happen too often, but a good IC will completely take advantage if they ever get a grab down............ Don't get grabbed...Zelda wins.....simple as that.... Zelda probably has the advantage but don't let up for a second.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I feel it is kind of a Hail Mary Pass game for the IC's....

Grabs aren't really going to happen too often, but a good IC will completely take advantage if they ever get a grab down............ Don't get grabbed...Zelda wins.....simple as that.... Zelda probably has the advantage but don't let up for a second.

yes... it's much like metaknight in that sense.... common wisdom seems to be that Zelda V. MK is an even matchup for Zelda.... but Zelda HAS to be on her game because MK is a beast at punishing lag, and zelda has lag to punish.... that having been said, a pro won't make enough mistakes for MK to be able to ride this advantage to the bank... and Zelda has enough on him to make the fight fair....

against the icies... it's the exact same case.... except, if Zelda doesn't make a lot of mistakes, she's not going to get grabbed... and then she takes away virtually the only think that the Icies have on her.... after that... it's smooth sailing... I mean... she counters everything they can throw at her pretty comfortably... the only way the icies are going to be winning a lot of these would be to get CGs in on low damage zeldas.... I mean.... if they don't, they just shouldn't win... and when winning relies on doing this, it should be pretty clear who has the strong advantage here.

and, if the ICs get grab happy trying to meet this end... they are just even more punishable by zelda.... just.... don't turn to shiek

 

[TigerWoods]

I think its a pretty nasty game of rock paper scizzors....

Iceclimbers really are going to aproach with(the last 2 being poor choices... but choices none the less)
-blizzard
-squall hammer
-grab
-dash attack
-aerial

Now all of the above=Counterable by Zelda.... however if Zelda Reacts incorrectly you are doomed....

having said that for each of those aproaches Zelda has about 5 good couinters(im being rough here.... you figure out the subtle details here) 1 "EHH" move and 1 that will cause Zeldas doom....so dont be stupid and shield what you thouht was a squall hammer.... which instead was a grab!

Dont spotdodge squall hammer either... or you will be eating a bit of damage.....stuff like that

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I think its a pretty nasty game of rock paper scizzors....

Iceclimbers really are going to aproach with(the last 2 being poor choices... but choices none the less)
-blizzard
-squall hammer
-grab
-dash attack
-aerial

Now all of the above=Counterable by Zelda.... however if Zelda Reacts incorrectly you are doomed....

having said that for each of those aproaches Zelda has about 5 good couinters(im being rough here.... you figure out the subtle details here) 1 "EHH" move and 1 that will cause Zeldas doom....so dont be stupid and shield what you thouht was a squall hammer.... which instead was a grab!

Dont spotdodge squall hammer either... or you will be eating a bit of damage.....stuff like that

but, all in all, err on the side of caution... if you accept that you might missguess and eat a tad bit of damage from squal hammer (which you can DI out of, or Fsmash through, or I THINK even counter with Nayru's) that's a lot better than getting CGd... as long as Zelda keeps in mind that she's not immune from grabs, this is her matchup to lose.... only if zelda starts getting sloppy should she be on the losing end of this matchup... and, once you get high damage, a CG hardly matters anymore since practically anything would have killed you... It's like rock paper scissors.... only if you consider a game of rock paper scissors where one Zelda would win in case of a tie... since, essentially, she will win much more often having a much greater chance of making a right decision since there tends to be only ONE wrong move and several countering options.... and, then consider that the only high stakes misguess is a grab... Iunno... this is Zelda's easy IMO... a hard counter if I've ever seen one.... though I think she MIGHT have an even easier time at king Dedede


also.... why in sweet jeebus would we pick Pictochat over one of ZELDA'S amazing stages like battlefield or Luigi's mansion?.... does pictochat have some odd built in counter to the icies? like randomy separating them? Idun know... I've never found pictochat to be a good stage for zelda... stand on the very edge and use din's to see what I mean <_<

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

I need to get a good IC's opinion on this in here...since I give bad matchup advice. >.<

....I need a Bunny.....

 

[TigerWoods]

Ic's are my alternates... lol....

i cant zero to death well but i can 90 to death ok.....

i can 0 to 50 pretty good too xD

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

Ic's are my alternates... lol....

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone. o.o

I didn't mean it that way.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

then tell me this sir woods.... is pictochat particularly BAD for Icies? or do they gain special advatages from Luigi's mansion or Battlefield?

if not.... why are THESE not listed as counterpics rather than pictochat <_<

 

[momochuu]

I need to get a good IC's opinion on this in here...since I give bad matchup advice. >.<

....I need a Bunny.....

You got one. 8D
*Cough*

Umm...Zelda is really really hard. She has the one thing that makes things so much harder for the Ice Climbers. A very good projectile. Desynching is one of our best approaches and that's just an invite to get Din's Fire'd in the face. Blizzard and Ice Block (Two of our best attacks) get reflected, and her Smashes are hard to get past. Another downside for the Ice Climbers is Nana's stupidity. ._.;;
You can easily get an UpAir on her because of the delay it takes for her to actually airdodge. Seperating them as Zelda also seems pretty easy. Din's can shoot them out of Squall recovery IIRC and her Smashes usually send them at a strange trajectory, and being desynched against Zelda is not a good idea...

The few things we have going for us are chaingrabs against her. Even then...she's pretty tough to BThrow. So we usually have to play a completely different game to actually get a grab in.

Just don't get grabbed and you'll do fine.

 

[RoyalBlood]

then tell me this sir woods.... is pictochat particularly BAD for Icies? or do they gain special advatages from Luigi's mansion or Battlefield?

if not.... why are THESE not listed as counterpics rather than pictochat <_<

Because i don't know about stages :D

Battlefield is a No =/ ior Yes 0.0?

Dunno about Luigi's, maybe yes =3

Thanks for the contribution ~Kawaii Bunny~ ^_^

Also I agree with Kyle err i mean Sonic about 70:30 Zelda :D What do YOU say ??

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Because i don't know about stages :D

Battlefield is a No =/ ior Yes 0.0?

Dunno about Luigi's, maybe yes =3

Thanks for the contribution ~Kawaii Bunny~ ^_^

Also I agree with Kyle err i mean Sonic about 70:30 Zelda :D What do YOU say ??

well okay.. zelda excells at these two stages... she also excells at green greens sometimes... and smashville is the easiest stage for her to recover onto and doesn't give any character really much of an advantage if you can't find anything better.

anyhow... I'd be sure pick one of these stages as Zelda's "good" stage unless their are stage specific strategies that play into the specific matchup or there is a stage that really gimps the enemy.... OR they play luigi's and battlefield better than you.

....and, anyhow, yeah... I agree with 70:30 but it's still early in the thread discussion... not like there's much more to say though.

 

[XFadingNirvanaX]

ah hell I'll try a go at it.


In a Zelda vs. IC matchup the thing to look out for the most are CGs. That's what seems to get me the most. I've had them turn the tides and leading to Zelda losing the match. Dtilt, Din's, Dsmash, and NL are nice to help from being grabbed. FW to where they're standing while hoping to hit them is not a good idea at all. Instant CG right there.

One thing I find useful is to Footstool jump Popo and Uair to Nana while they're trying to recover. I haven't done it succesfully a lot though.

Seperating Nana and KOing her is easy for Zelda. Popo's up for a tough fight alone.

eh, hopefully none of this sounded "well duh" ish. Like I said, I don't give geat matchup advice.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

ah hell I'll try a go at it.


In a Zelda vs. IC matchup the thing to look out for the most are CGs. That's what seems to get me the most. I've had them turn the tides and leading to Zelda losing the match. Dtilt, Din's, Dsmash, and NL are nice to help from being grabbed. FW to where they're standing while hoping to hit them is not a good idea at all. Instant CG right there.

One thing I find useful is to Footstool jump Popo and Uair to Nana while they're trying to recover. I haven't done it succesfully a lot though.

Seperating Nana and KOing her is easy for Zelda. Popo's up for a tough fight alone.

eh, hopefully none of this sounded "well duh" ish. Like I said, I don't give geat matchup advice.

Indeed...
Farore's wind ONTO the iceclimbers is fine IF you only do it very occasionally and you are reasonably certain it'll not get powershielded and result in a changrab.

I like using nair against recovering iceclimbers.... it's VERY good at separating them.

Popo alone vs. Zelda is probably at least 90:10 in Zelda's favour.

well I mean... YOU think it's no duh... but user with less experience might not know what moves separate ICs best, or even think of footstool/uair edgeguarding or how bad an idea that FW right onto the icies really is

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

okay.. sorry for double post... but I think icies seem done now... don't you think? I mean we can still discuss them too... but since the thread is dead ATM I'd move on to the next matchup...

.... also.... I've been playing a lot of peaches recently...... and winning...... maybe it IS really only 55:45 0_0

 

[RoyalBlood]

okay.. sorry for double post... but I think icies seem done now... don't you think? I mean we can still discuss them too... but since the thread is dead ATM I'd move on to the next matchup...

Ok I'll update but i need a reliable stage for IC taking into account CGs and Zelda's move exploitage on it ^_^

.... also.... I've been playing a lot of peaches recently...... and winning...... maybe it IS really only 55:45 0_0

Me too; i just got accostumed to playing good Peaches *coughVillicough* and i know now how to fare against them maybe it is really 50:50 T_T

Next update to come BUT IC are 70:30 or 40:60 Zelda?? =/

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Next update to come BUT IC are 70:30 or 40:60 Zelda?? =/

I say Zelda is a hard counter.... 70:30... It seemed to me like kawaii bunny was in agreement that zelda has an easy time against the icies... as for stages... I think they can GC on any stage really... though you're right... pictochat could potentially interupt it... as could delfino plaza... IDK... just don't pick a stage that icies really like or that you hate and it should be fine.

and no... a good peach still give me problems... I'm unwilling to put them even.... but 55:45 peach doesn't seem unreasonable I guess... I mean half of us were arguing 60:40 the other 50:50... so it does make sense

 

[Slyfer070]

I propose the next match up we talk about be Game and Watch or Kirby. But to stay on the current topic: Zelda is pretty much one of the true counters to IC that i've seen. She's right above Lucario to countering them. pretty much ALL of her moves are AoE attacks which is deadly to an IC player because of Nana's never ending stupidity. She's not perfectly synched with Popo so you can snipe at her all day, most people would assume you're sniping at Popo so they'd do the dodge for popo to avoid it, not nana. And if somehow they catch on, you can easily mix it up.

Basically, IC's are nothing if one is dead, and Zelda has all the effective tools to safely kill her faster than popo. Which is all you really need to do to ensure a stock.

Her dsmash and fsmash push them far enough away to where they can't attempt a chaingrab of any kind right off the bat. And they have to worry about properly shielding more than alot of characters since if they're off even a little Nana's eating a smash in her face, and they're distracted to try and get back with her. Zelda's fsmash even "reflects" iceblocks. It's a quick reliable way to not get iceblock spammed on the ground. if they try it in the air, they have to worry about us hopping the blocks and Dinning their faces. IC have enough lag in their fsmash to where it's easily punishable by a dsmash.

This match up has to be one of Zelda's gimme matches as long as the player is aware of spacing. She has so much going for her in this match up.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'd like to do meta next.... but I agree with all your assertions about the icies.... this is zelda's match to lose.... definitely 70:30 zelda at the WORST... she may be even harder than that.

ALSO... RoyalBlood... when you update... and for all future updates.... please refrain from putting your personal opinion of a matchup on the original post.... especially considering that your more recent two updates have contained points that are wrong...

Summaries should be put up AFTER the matchup has been discussed and should be pulled fromt he common consensus... not a single person UNLESS what that person says IS the common consensus...

I just wasnt the Zelda matchup thread to have an air of credibility to it.

that is all.

 

[Slyfer070]

Metaknight: When i first fought him alot, i used to think that yes the guy's hard, but i feel that there's some way to get around all his pros.

Fast forward to a couple days ago where i was having trouble with a Metaknight with less skill than myself. And i was LOSING. The worst thing about Metaknight for Zelda, is that he can keep you airborne all day long. Which is the worst place to be just being zelda, combined with it's the worst place you want to be against metaknight.

It's too much of an uphill battle to overcome IMO. You basically have to HOPE metaknight runs into everything you do. I know Zelda is strong. But this time i dont think it's a good enough edge to win. The most effective way i've controlled a metaknight in a match is with dtilt. That one move pretty much evens up our ground game vs him because his running grab is ridiculously fast and leads you into being juggled for 20-30(hopefully) damage.

And let's not talk about dsmash. If I had to guess, it comes out faster than ours, and hits almost simultaneously on both side of him with respectable range. I think he's one of the few characters, if not the only, that could truly punish our dsmash, even if it pushes him away with his dsmash or possibly his running grab.

I personally couldn't imagine this match up being any less 60-40 metaknight.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

MK.... honestly.... I don't have problems with them....

• MK's specials as an approach get punished by zelda since din's, Fsmash and Usmash all have the ability to cut through them.
• Zelda outranges and outprioitizes MK... THAT'S what helps her this matchup.... you NEED to be smart..... but if you are, you can make yourself hard for MK to connect with.... and considering he's so light weight.... connecting even just a few times puts him in KO range for any of your directional aerials.
• MK's recovery is not really gimpable unless he's just stupid with it..... but it's also impossible for him to avoid Din's fire while he's doing it... free damage means a LOT on MK since he's not capable of holding much damage at all.
• if he DOES get close... your Dsmash is one of the elite few moves that can outspeed most of MKs and push him far enough away that you can resume a safe distance.
• Powershielding a shuttle loop and following up with a Usmash it almost a guarunteed connection.
• Usmash, speaking of the devil, stuffs his aerial approaches... and since his ground game is not better than yours... that's an immense help.
• Honestly... just stay out of the air and you are one of MK's hardest matchups... true... he can punish your mistakes really well.... but if you are good enough not to make many mistakes... he has a REALLY hard time getting past your defenses to land a KO move.... even so... and even with your power and his weight... he's so good by default that we don't actually have an advantage on him.... it's probably 50:50... maybe 55:45

I wrote this a while ago... I wonder if it's still useful

-DON'T APPROACH METAKNIGHT. he's going to punish you if you dash attack him by spotdodging and punishing your cooldown lag. he'll just whack you out of a dash Usmash... you could get lucky and hope he reacts incorrectly, but I wouldn't bet on it.

-His air game will kill yours, so STAY GROUNDED unless moving in for a Uair kill.

- Lots of your moves, if timed correctly, will go through his priority tornado.

-DON'T LET HIM TOO CLOSE Dsmash if he's right on top of you.

-Use din's to force him to approach.

-Usmash destroys any attempt he makes to come at you from the air. It'll be your best friend.

-Usmash allso punishes a power shielded shuttle loop.

- he's REALLY lightweight so you can kill him at obscenely low damages as long as one of your KO moves is relatively fresh.

- Be smart with Farore's wind. It's a slow recovery, so make sure you employ it in the safest manner possible

-A glide is easily punnished by Din's fire

if you can short hop into a lighting kick, I'm pretty sure you can KO metaknight at 50%

if he goes up with his tornado and you find yourself below him, he can't airdodge, Uair will kill him at low damage, if Uair has a lot of decay on it, Utilt is also a strong option. if neither of those are practical, Usmash is good for building damage and high damage KOs

Din's fire is quite capable of actually KOing metaknight if his damage and screen position are high enough or close enough to the edge.

DON'T TRY TO FEND OFF HIS AERIALS, they outrange yours.. just avoid him. If he's dumb enough to get in lightning kick range then punish him with a FRESH lighting kick instead of one you failed to land 7 times.

Save a jump when you are in the air.. it makes you more versitile and you have a better chance of escaping.

You won't get off your spike... don't even try it.

You also will never land your Nair because of its range... only use it to refresh other moves.

Don't neglect tilts or her neutral A. You need all the speed to can get in this matchup, and they refresh your KO moves.

if your Dtilt causes Metaknight trip, which it's likely to do, it's impossible for him to avoid a Fsmash if you follow up with it. (Moral: follow up successful trips with Fsmash)

Nayru's love is a great "get the hell off of me" move, and since you won't be reflecting anything, it'll normally be pretty fresh. it's a great alternative to Dsmash when he's too close. it tends to be better at dealing damage, but it doesn't have the KOing power.

if you powersheild his Up+B you can easily drop your sheild in time to Usmash him when he finishes his loop, he can't attack through it, though it's funny to watch him try.

I'm not even sure if you need to powersheild it.

Edit: KEEP IN MIND that even though the matchup is even, he WILL win if you make too many mistakes. Don't get complacent just because you are one of MK's harder matchups

 

[Slyfer070]

well i guess i might have been a bit reckless last time i fought MK which you can't be. That and I don't fight MK often enough to know how to fight him. I'll try to fight some more to gain a bit of experience with him since it's not in abundance. I was just spouting what i remember from fighting him last time.

 

[RoyalBlood]

I'd like to do meta next.... but I agree with all your assertions about the icies.... this is zelda's match to lose.... definitely 70:30 zelda at the WORST... she may be even harder than that.

ALSO... RoyalBlood... when you update... and for all future updates.... please refrain from putting your personal opinion of a matchup on the original post.... especially considering that your more recent two updates have contained points that are wrong...

*sigh* Hey Sonic, you've been a lot more rude this days
And that's why is a personal opinion; it's my opinion, and as you may have noticed, i never ever make that a summary, if you look at the Ike match-up, you can see written "Summary" above the paragraph(that was written by YagamiLight ^^), i think it's clear enough so other people know which is a summary and which is not, adding that a summary is well written, ordered and so.

Summaries should be put up AFTER the matchup has been discussed and should be pulled fromt he common consensus... not a single person UNLESS what that person says IS the common consensus...

Read above please

I just wasnt the Zelda matchup thread to have an air of credibility to it.

that is all.

Ok

And i haven't even posted the new match-up, and you already took control of it, you should post your own match-up thread and that the title says "OFFICIAL", if you have read the title you may have noticed i didn't write Official Match-up thread.

Edit: I guess you should continue to discuss MK since you already started *sigh*

Edit 2 : I'll erase all of my opinions so there is no confusion

And we're not basing this on your opinion, comments like "I refuse to make it even" or "It's 30:70 at best for Zelda" and "I can't beat Peaches, they win over me a lot" are not really good or solid statements, please consider the harshness and effects of your words before posting and if you're gonna debate, please back up your words with proofs and maybe offline videos.

The reason i don't want MK to be the next match-up is because the MK boards (well a reasonable number of them) are too full of themselves, so i was going to decide between underused characters you may encounter as Zelda, instead of characters you always fight with.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

And i haven't even posted the new match-up, and you already took control of it, you should post your own match-up thread and that the title says "OFFICIAL", if you have read the title you may have noticed i didn't write Official Match-up thread.

Edit: I guess you should continue to discuss MK since you already started *sigh*

Edit 2 : I'll erase all of my opinions so there is no confusion

And we're not basing this on your opinion, comments like "I refuse to make it even" or "It's 30:70 at best for Zelda" and "I can't beat Peaches, they win over me a lot" are not really good or solid statements, please consider the harshness and effects of your words before posting and if you're gonna debate, please back up your words with proofs and maybe offline videos.

The reason i don't want MK to be the next match-up is because the MK boards (well a reasonable number of them) are too full of themselves, so i was going to decide between underused characters you may encounter as Zelda, instead of characters you always fight with.

I'm not trying to be rude... I'm just saying I know other boards aren't necessarily sold on the credibility of this thread... the fact that you aren't pro is one reason why I'm sure... so I unno... it looks a lot more professional if we don't post a summary until after the matchup... I know you think it looked obviously different... but it looks like a sumary of points to me

@edit1: well... icies seemed done... so I wanted to move on I guess.
@edit2: good deal

it just makes the most sense to me to decide the most likely to encounter matchups first... and opinion is fine in a debate because you need SOME opinion... however... the opinion must be supported in facts and results...

 

[RoyalBlood]

I'm not trying to be rude... I'm just saying I know other boards aren't necessarily sold on the credibility of this thread... the fact that you aren't pro is one reason why I'm sure... so I unno... it looks a lot more professional if we don't post a summary until after the matchup... I know you think it looked obviously different... but it looks like a sumary of points to me

Ok, but i already said that it wasn't a summary *sigh*

And who said i was a Pro and the only Pro here is RyokoYaksa -_- every other Zelda is just very good, good or decent (i think i'm decent :D)

@edit1: well... icies seemed done... so I wanted to move on I guess.
@edit2: good deal

it just makes the most sense to me to decide the most likely to encounter matchups first... and opinion is fine in a debate because you need SOME opinion... however... the opinion must be supported in facts and results...

That's why all i post, i test before posting, i already said this in another thread -_-

I'll update MK later

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'll update MK later

oh come on now... don't be sad

I just didn't want to see your hard work go to waste on a thread no one took seriously.

but now they should

 

[RoyalBlood]

oh come on now... don't be sad

I just didn't want to see your hard work go to waste on a thread no one took seriously.

but now they should

That was so harsh </3 maybe true but very harsh

Now i'll update since IE 8 didn't let me enter smashwiki ^_^

 

[RoyalBlood]

Double post =/
Anyway my opinion ^_^
Zelda can limit a lot (if not all) of MK aerial approaches or attacks when Zelda is onthe ground
For the tornado, Din's Fire will take him out of it when he's grounded and coming towards you, Dair will take him out if you're above him, Uair will take him out when he's above you and Nayru's Love will take you out when you're inside the tornado (keep tapping B until Nayru's activates)
He's helpless when gliding so use Din's Fire and you're Usmash will nullify any attempt of him to glide attack you (unless you time Usmash wrong)
Your D-smash is as fast as his (i think) so it's a matter of who starts it first
Lightning Kicks are awesome when he goes out to edgeguard you (of course just use them when you consider that he'll predict it) They can kill MK off the edges at like 40-50%
D-tilt is very good too for starting "combos" or setting up a KO
U-smash and D-smash out of a shield for aerial and grounded attacks respectively make wonders against MK
Air Dodge Air Dodge Air Dodge!!! don't try to attack him when aerial, his Up-B has very strong knockback, so be unpredictable if you're gonna attack in the air
Use U-air after or when he is gliding, he won't be able to dodge or hit you if you space it properly

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

the only things there I'd disagree with are trying to dair a tornado and trying to LK an edgeguarding MK... not that it'll never work... but it's a big risk... so make sure you have a clean setup and the risk is worth the reward... which it won't be with dairing his tornado... just avoid it in that case.

 

[RoyalBlood]

the only things there I'd disagree with are trying to dair a tornado and trying to LK an edgeguarding MK... not that it'll never work... but it's a big risk... so make sure you have a clean setup and the risk is worth the reward... which it won't be with dairing his tornado... just avoid it in that case.

Exactly ^_^ do as Sonic said ^_^
But about the tornado, it's a fact that MK is vulnerable from above since the tornado only covers from the side so any dair will hit him out of it, except certain ones will do it easier than others
I would call it 50:50 or 55:45 MK =/

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Exactly ^_^ do as Sonic said ^_^
But about the tornado, it's a fact that MK is vulnerable from above since the tornado only covers from the side so any dair will hit him out of it, except certain ones will do it easier than others
I would call it 50:50 or 55:45 MK =/

I know that... it's just he has a LOT of aerial mobility... so chances are he's not going to set himself up for that... and you'll be trapped int he tornado before you enter sweetspot range.... so... unless he's doing this off the edge and you want to get a lucky spike... I'd just get back to the stage however you can, then punish him upon his landing... and I agree with 50:50 or 55:45

 

[RoyalBlood]

Jajaja Bueno, quiero cambiar ZSS a 50:50 y a Peach a 50:50
Entonces quedamos en que Meta Knight es 50:50 verdad ^_^
Oh no! El tema se murió, a ver amigos, como que van posteando más no? Osea, no son gente nice =/
jajaja broma bueno ya, ¿cómo ven?

Oh whoops, i typed in spanish, oh well :D

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

a... es bueno a mi.... pero, en mi opinion ZSS está todavía en situación desventajosa contra Zelda... posiblemente es mas cerca a 55:45 en favor de Zelda... y en el caso de peach, posiblemente es 55:45 peach?

MK I'd like some more input on before we settle on 50:50 because I KNOW people are not in complete agreement about that.

 

[Takumaru]

Hey, not all of us speak spanish. So uh... translate now plskthxbai.

 

[Slyfer070]

<---is not in agreement with the 50:50 match up.

I just feel that's it's too easy for MK to get zelda in the air and have her in the air for half the game just trying to get back to the ground.