Sesshomuronay
Smash Lord
Game and Watch?
I think its 55/45 in our favor as we got a lot of stuff that can outrange him.
I think its 55/45 in our favor as we got a lot of stuff that can outrange him.
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Official Zero Suit Samus Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheZeroSuit
- Start date
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
I think it's 50/50.
what he/she said(sorry idk).
test of skill.
um if this is done, i think wolf or olimar could be good to cover.
I personally could go with 50/50 or 55/45 ZSS, having now played some decent GaWs. ZSS has a lot of good range options against GaW and is pretty good at keeping him in the air. I feel like GaW has an easier time KOing than ZSS, but if ZSS can keep up the pressure and keep GaW in the air, she can pull it out.
Adapt
Smash Lord
After playing the matchup today I would go with 55-45 for ZSS. Her spacing options really help to avoid a lot of his dangerous moves and combos. The most annoying this for me to deal with was his up-B.
I would have put it at 60-40, but the guy I was playing was not to well versed in the matchup.
I would have put it at 60-40, but the guy I was playing was not to well versed in the matchup.
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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- Oct 13, 2007
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I've like never played this matchup before srsly. No fair. =(
Ing.
Smash Cadet
i have fought G&W and its realy hard so just to add my rates i would say probly a
ZSS 4/6 G&W
just wat iv found difficult is wen they chain in air and just basicaly rambod @
ZSS 4/6 G&W
just wat iv found difficult is wen they chain in air and just basicaly rambod @
It looks like the overarching view on this match-up has tended towards 5/5, with an error of no more than ±1/±1, and most have stated that 5/5 is a reasonable assessment of the match-up as well, so maybe we should lock that one in and start thinking about our next match-up. I think it'd be fun to talk about Olimar, but then again I play one on a regular basis.
Unless someone would like to go into further detail on GaW with a discussion of possible strategies?
Unless someone would like to go into further detail on GaW with a discussion of possible strategies?
Adapt
Smash Lord
i would like to do ness, cuz I play a good ness pretty often and I can never seem to beat him with ZSS. Granted he is better than me, but I do better with ROB and Zelda
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
Well the only detailed match-up information we have right now is mine, and I haven't really played that many GaWs, so it's mainly based on theory.
If anyone has anymore Pros/Cons and stage counterpicks that would be helpful, cuz right now the match-up advice is going to be slim.
However, we should probably move on since we've been on GaW for a while. We should probably talk about someone that will spark the discussion back up. I think we should stick to the high-tiers, Dedede, Wario, Marth, etc.
If anyone has anymore Pros/Cons and stage counterpicks that would be helpful, cuz right now the match-up advice is going to be slim.
However, we should probably move on since we've been on GaW for a while. We should probably talk about someone that will spark the discussion back up. I think we should stick to the high-tiers, Dedede, Wario, Marth, etc.
canthandletheSpeculosity
Smash Journeyman
If it's ok i would like to vote on discussing wario next. All i really know in terms of strategy is grab release to dsmash, and infinite if it's legal. Because of his dair it's hard to approach him from under in the air, which zss excels in. while I'm here can zss' upB out prio (new abbreviation. USE IT.) wario's dair?
Snakeee
Smash Master
I've played against a few top G&W's, I've just been busy lately with work and haven't had the time to put together a solid explanation on the match up. Well, the match up is definitely ZSS >= G&W but it's 6/4 ZSS IMHO.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
aight, when do you think you'll get a chance?
I was gonna update OP tonight, but if you can give detailed match-up info soon, I'll wait for it.
Also, I played a GaW today a little bit. HOLY CRAP. Jab, Jab, Jab. So good in this matchup. I didn't realize how amazingly powerful it can be if it can't be shieldgrabbed. Everytime you feel pressure, jab, and you're fine. If you end up jabbing his shield, then play it normal, cancel into a d-tilt or whatever you feel comfortable with. Also, retreating pivot grabs are GREAT in this matchup. Since some of GaW's aerials have landing hitboxes (b-air/d-air), they have pretty big landing lag, plenty of time to get the tether grab. Plus, you get a guaranteed f-air/u-air out of grab release.
I've switched my vote, I think it is 6:4 ZSS
James Sparrow
Smash Master
I like that G&W can't shield between 2nd and 3rd hit of jab, making it a great oos option for him.
Snakeee
Smash Master
I'm in a such a bad mood and aggrivated, but I'll try to give my synopsis since you guys actually want my input and I feel special lol. Sorry if I repeat myself on this a bit.
Btw, jabs do work extremely well in this match up but guess what? I didn't even realize that he couldn't grab you out of it at all because I jab like that in almost every match up. (but I did notice it hadn't been happening) No one seems to believe me that you can interrupt a shield grab attempt with another grab against a lot of characters. Well, even I don't know how accurate that is, but it's been working pretty well even against top players.
Approaching
G&W is forced to approach ZSS when being camped by forward B. He can't simply sit back and punish as he does in a lot of other match ups. His most likely approach would be his b-air or n-air. If ZSS shields all the hits of these attacks, usually she can jab OOS and I believe automatically hit him. The ZSS player does have to be familiar with the match up for this and have a good idea of how many hits his aerials consist of.
The only real way G&W's approach can be solid against ZSS is by getting past the forward B spacing is by powershielding it and then going for an aerial. This can be done at times, yet it is somewhat difficult for him because he is not that fast of a character. A lot of the time they will attempt this, and still end up being jabbed, tilted, or even D-smashed.
Aerial Game
G&W usually is fine recovering from the air because of the priority of his D-air, but ZSS can break through this with up smash. If it's the starting frames of D-air, up B will also work and I actually find this to be more useful because you can hit him while you're in the air. Up air is a good choice at times too, but can be risky. Usually, it would be a good idea to do this when G&W is at high damage, and ZSS is not. This will trade hits most of the time, so it can actually be used to KO pretty well. ZSS is at a good advantage while having G&W in the air.
G&W's aerial control is pretty good as well, yet he not as good as ZSS'. He can often Up- air, N-air or ,Up B into her, and without putting himself in much risk at all. However, he lacks any strong attacks while ZSS is directly above him so she's hardly ever in danger of a KO. One of the only times he can KO her after having her in the air is mindgaming her to come down and pulling off an f-smash or d-smash, but this isn't very likely. Down B is still useful against G&W to escape in the air, but he can still sometimes hit her because of the length of his aerials.
Edgeguarding
This is definitely in ZSS' favor. The best way to edgeguard is obviously Forward B off the stage because it outranges all of his aerials. If it is spotdodged, she can often follow up with a b-air or f-air. When he is on the ledge, he must recover quickly to avoid risking a d-smash -spike. The most common recovery I've seen is an N-air onto the stage which ZSS can end up hitting him out of shield but it still works pretty well at times. ZSS should mix up shielding and Forward B's while G&W is on the ledge.
On the other hand, G&W's edgeguarding while ZSS is on the ledge is so-so. It's usually pretty amazing against other characters, but ZSS can counter it pretty well. A ledge hopped forward B is a good choice against most of his attacks here. Even if he shields it this creates a good opportunity to down B footstool over his head.
KO power
This is the only area where I really think G&W has an advantage. His attacks are very strong, stronger than ZSS' especially his f-smash and up smash. And the f-smash and d-smash are not really punishable at all. Usually I think all ZSS can do to get away is to roll, and that puts her in danger of a grab , up-smash, or f-air. The thing is though that ZSS' spacing game doesn't let G&W get close enough for this too often. Also, a lot of ZSS' KOs come from off the stage or in the air, so this balances how early each of them is KO'ed a bit.
Btw, jabs do work extremely well in this match up but guess what? I didn't even realize that he couldn't grab you out of it at all because I jab like that in almost every match up. (but I did notice it hadn't been happening) No one seems to believe me that you can interrupt a shield grab attempt with another grab against a lot of characters. Well, even I don't know how accurate that is, but it's been working pretty well even against top players.
Approaching
G&W is forced to approach ZSS when being camped by forward B. He can't simply sit back and punish as he does in a lot of other match ups. His most likely approach would be his b-air or n-air. If ZSS shields all the hits of these attacks, usually she can jab OOS and I believe automatically hit him. The ZSS player does have to be familiar with the match up for this and have a good idea of how many hits his aerials consist of.
The only real way G&W's approach can be solid against ZSS is by getting past the forward B spacing is by powershielding it and then going for an aerial. This can be done at times, yet it is somewhat difficult for him because he is not that fast of a character. A lot of the time they will attempt this, and still end up being jabbed, tilted, or even D-smashed.
Aerial Game
G&W usually is fine recovering from the air because of the priority of his D-air, but ZSS can break through this with up smash. If it's the starting frames of D-air, up B will also work and I actually find this to be more useful because you can hit him while you're in the air. Up air is a good choice at times too, but can be risky. Usually, it would be a good idea to do this when G&W is at high damage, and ZSS is not. This will trade hits most of the time, so it can actually be used to KO pretty well. ZSS is at a good advantage while having G&W in the air.
G&W's aerial control is pretty good as well, yet he not as good as ZSS'. He can often Up- air, N-air or ,Up B into her, and without putting himself in much risk at all. However, he lacks any strong attacks while ZSS is directly above him so she's hardly ever in danger of a KO. One of the only times he can KO her after having her in the air is mindgaming her to come down and pulling off an f-smash or d-smash, but this isn't very likely. Down B is still useful against G&W to escape in the air, but he can still sometimes hit her because of the length of his aerials.
Edgeguarding
This is definitely in ZSS' favor. The best way to edgeguard is obviously Forward B off the stage because it outranges all of his aerials. If it is spotdodged, she can often follow up with a b-air or f-air. When he is on the ledge, he must recover quickly to avoid risking a d-smash -spike. The most common recovery I've seen is an N-air onto the stage which ZSS can end up hitting him out of shield but it still works pretty well at times. ZSS should mix up shielding and Forward B's while G&W is on the ledge.
On the other hand, G&W's edgeguarding while ZSS is on the ledge is so-so. It's usually pretty amazing against other characters, but ZSS can counter it pretty well. A ledge hopped forward B is a good choice against most of his attacks here. Even if he shields it this creates a good opportunity to down B footstool over his head.
KO power
This is the only area where I really think G&W has an advantage. His attacks are very strong, stronger than ZSS' especially his f-smash and up smash. And the f-smash and d-smash are not really punishable at all. Usually I think all ZSS can do to get away is to roll, and that puts her in danger of a grab , up-smash, or f-air. The thing is though that ZSS' spacing game doesn't let G&W get close enough for this too often. Also, a lot of ZSS' KOs come from off the stage or in the air, so this balances how early each of them is KO'ed a bit.
yes, GB does that to me all the time...
canthandletheSpeculosity
Smash Journeyman
good stuff snakeee.
canthandletheSpeculosity
Smash Journeyman
sooo you're saying that if they shield your third hit you should grab before they do and you'll get them?
EDIT: oh dammit, sry about the double post. =/
Adapt
Smash Lord
A2ZOMG
Smash Legend
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- Oct 13, 2007
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I just played InsomniaK's ZSS yesterday (live friendlies!!!) and got owned in the *** every single time no matter which character I used. He's soooo much better than me. I hate playing against ZSS now. Oh yeah, and expect him to carve a path of destruction in SoCal one day cause he's just so ****ing good. XD
Anyhow, ZSS definitely has answers to G&W. I dunno if it's fair to say she has the advantage though, cause Insomniak's ZSS just simply outplayed me no matter what I did with any character. I use G&W, Mario, Ganondorf, and ROB btw.
Forward B is mostly safe. Paralyzer shots are safe and hard to Bucket on reaction. Aerials can KO pretty well and you can set those up with Paralyzer shots.
G&W has the ability to edgeguard ZSS due to having more priority on several attacks to keep him safe, but he's probably not easily scoring KOs on her offstage.
By the way, ZSS can't really edgeguard G&W at all. Nobody really can. At the ledge, she can spam D-smash though to make him get up, but that's really it. I haven't tried ledgedrop Bucket much to counter it, but it seems risky and hard to do without giving her the option of edgehogging.
Juggling ZSS is a good tactic for G&W since she doesn't have much in terms of hitting directly below her.
I found that I mostly KOed her with F-air. D-throw D-smash works if she doesn't tech, but otherwise Smashes are pretty situational.
Anyhow, ZSS definitely has answers to G&W. I dunno if it's fair to say she has the advantage though, cause Insomniak's ZSS just simply outplayed me no matter what I did with any character. I use G&W, Mario, Ganondorf, and ROB btw.
Forward B is mostly safe. Paralyzer shots are safe and hard to Bucket on reaction. Aerials can KO pretty well and you can set those up with Paralyzer shots.
G&W has the ability to edgeguard ZSS due to having more priority on several attacks to keep him safe, but he's probably not easily scoring KOs on her offstage.
By the way, ZSS can't really edgeguard G&W at all. Nobody really can. At the ledge, she can spam D-smash though to make him get up, but that's really it. I haven't tried ledgedrop Bucket much to counter it, but it seems risky and hard to do without giving her the option of edgehogging.
Juggling ZSS is a good tactic for G&W since she doesn't have much in terms of hitting directly below her.
I found that I mostly KOed her with F-air. D-throw D-smash works if she doesn't tech, but otherwise Smashes are pretty situational.
Snakeee
Smash Master
No, you can start another jab combo before they can shield grab you against most characters it seems if you time it just right
Adapt
Smash Lord
Ok we can probably move this discussion along now. Who was the next character we suggested?
DeliciousCake
Smash Lord
I hate ROB. By far one of my most hated characters under Metaknight.
we share something in common.
FadedImage
Smash Journeyman
sorry I haven't updated OP guys, I'll get around to it soon. School is piling up right now, so I can't write huge match-up essays, gotta write art history essays... ):
Adapt
Smash Lord
don't write an essay, just say "coming soon" and change the title character
TheZeroSuit
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2008
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- 65
R.O.B.
Old Information:
Pros:
Final Verdict: 60-40 (subject to change)
Matchup Advice:
- Better aerial game due to speed and mobility.
- Can harass R.O.B.'s recovery because of its lack of mobility and options.
- R.O.B.'s telegraphed kill moves allow ZSS to have increased survivability.
- R.O.B.'s projectile game forces ZSS to approach.
- R.O.B.’s quick ground moves create tons of close range pressure.
- R.O.B.'s edgeguarding ability can result in early gimp deaths.
Final Verdict: 60-40 (subject to change)
Matchup Advice:
- Game Plan:
Get R.O.B. in the air and off the edge. Exploit his lack of mobility and options in both situations to rack up damage and get KOs.
- Suitpiece Strategy:
Avoid letting R.O.B. gain control of the pieces; his glide toss is as good as yours and he's used to using it well, since he practices with the gyro. The suit pieces can be useful when you knock R.O.B. off the stage because if he uses his Up-B he will not be able to airdodge in time to avoid contact with a well aimed piece.
- Long Range:
R.O.B. will be using his strong projectile game to rack up damage and force an approach. Do not run in blindly. Keep your eyes on R.O.B. and wait for the telegraphed animations (head tilting back for laser and arms forward for gyro).
- Medium Range:
As usual, this is the prime location for a ZSS. You may begin to apply pressure here after he has recently used his laser and the gyro is not charged. Use Side-B and Neutral-B to prevent R.O.B. from charging his gyro or backing off to resume his projectile game. R.O.B.'s roll is also very telegraphed and slow, if he tries to roll past your Side-B, punish heavily. R.O.B. will often leave a weak gyro at medium range to interfere with ground movement at medium range and try and force you to back off or come closer, make sure to shield it or pick it up for yourself.
- Close Range:
As usual, ZSS's close range game pales in comparison to R.O.B.'s, avoid this range as much as possible. R.O.B.’s jabs, forward and down tilts are excellent for applying pressure, while his down-smash punishes either side of him quickly. F-Tilt has great range, jabs and D-Tilt are fast, and D-Smash does good damage and can KO if it's not SDI'd. Of these moves, R.O.B.’s D-Tilt is probably the most dangerous because it will trip you frequently (which will be followed with grabs) and it both starts and ends fast (great for shield pressure). ZSS needs to stick to jabs in order to be quicker than R.O.B., which should be used to alleviate pressure as you retreat back to medium range.
- In the air:
Pressure R.O.B. constantly in the air. He has far less mobility in the air. Try to be under or behind him, locations where he cannot easily cover due to slow hitboxes in those directions. Above and in front he has fairly quick aerials that can be dangerous, approach with caution.
- When R.O.B. is Recovering:
His recovery has a set amount of fuel, as such, if you can keep him off the stage for long enough, you can gimp him. R.O.B. cannot airdodge directly out of his Up-B but he can cancel it with an attack. Use Side-B and well spaced B-Airs to avoid his F-Airs and N-Airs. He may also use B-Air to help him recover due to its momentum properties.
- When ZSS is Recovering:
Beware of lasers and gyros being flung off the stage to prevent your recovery. Being hit by a fully charged laser or gyro is normally death unless you are able to DI the hit upwards sufficiently. ROB may also follow you out and try to create a wall of pain with fairs. Flipjump will usually save you from this tactic, but if you are predicted he will instead uair you to rack up more damage.
- Matchup Unique Information:
Make sure you turn ROB’s gyro against him. You should have a lot of practice dealing with items from using the armor pieces. The longer you hold it, the longer R.O.B. can not use his gyro. You can either use the same techniques you use for suit pieces to pick up the gyro and use it against him or shield for a fraction of a second near the gyro and it will disappear when its hitbox encounters a shield. (Sliding shield works well here)
- Counterpick Advice:
- Stages to Counter-pick: Lylat Cruise, Brinstar,
- Stages to Avoid: Frigate Orpheon, Final Destination
Old Information:
TheZeroSuit said:
GwJ
Smash Hero
(This is all from the perspective from ZSS)
R.O.B.
Pros: Great recovery, high priority, long range, two spammable projectiles.
Cons: lacks reliable KOing moves. Nair is predictable and Usmash is hard to land. slow.
Final Verdict: 45-55 ZSS's favor
Matchup Advice: Keep pressure on ROB. Characters like ZSS, MK, Fox, Falco who are fast and keep constant pressure have the match nearly clinched.
* Game Plan: Aim for his disjointed weakpoint which I believe is his front-right (towards his face), and bottom-back
* Suitpiece Strategy: Be careful with them. Recommended throw all except one of them off. Don't give ROB an item to glide toss if you don't need to.
* Long Range: ROB wins long range, ZSS has nothing.
* Medium Range: Spam neutral B and Side B, and Up B if ROB is above you.
* Close Range: Pummel with fast hits. Go for jabs, tilts of all sorts, however I wouldn't recommend grabbing. ZSS has a lot of lag from a missed grab. Try and go for the Down B spike.
* In the air: Fairs, Side B's, and Down B's are your friend. Put pressure on ROB with multiple Fairs, throwing in a Side B depending on how close you are to the stage, and finish off with a Down B spike if possible.
* When R.O.B. is Recovering: Keep him off the stage until his fuel runs out. Refer to "in the air" for what to do.
* When ZSS is Recovering: Try to recover low so that you don't get WoP'd to death, but if you end up recovering high, throw a fair or a down B into there for some safeness.
* Matchup Unique Information: Nothing in particular.
Counterpick Advice:
* Stages to Counter-pick: FD, Battlefield
* Stages to Avoid: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
This is a relatively neutral matchup but ZSS's speed running-wise and attack-wise add a slight advantage.
R.O.B.
Pros: Great recovery, high priority, long range, two spammable projectiles.
Cons: lacks reliable KOing moves. Nair is predictable and Usmash is hard to land. slow.
Final Verdict: 45-55 ZSS's favor
Matchup Advice: Keep pressure on ROB. Characters like ZSS, MK, Fox, Falco who are fast and keep constant pressure have the match nearly clinched.
* Game Plan: Aim for his disjointed weakpoint which I believe is his front-right (towards his face), and bottom-back
* Suitpiece Strategy: Be careful with them. Recommended throw all except one of them off. Don't give ROB an item to glide toss if you don't need to.
* Long Range: ROB wins long range, ZSS has nothing.
* Medium Range: Spam neutral B and Side B, and Up B if ROB is above you.
* Close Range: Pummel with fast hits. Go for jabs, tilts of all sorts, however I wouldn't recommend grabbing. ZSS has a lot of lag from a missed grab. Try and go for the Down B spike.
* In the air: Fairs, Side B's, and Down B's are your friend. Put pressure on ROB with multiple Fairs, throwing in a Side B depending on how close you are to the stage, and finish off with a Down B spike if possible.
* When R.O.B. is Recovering: Keep him off the stage until his fuel runs out. Refer to "in the air" for what to do.
* When ZSS is Recovering: Try to recover low so that you don't get WoP'd to death, but if you end up recovering high, throw a fair or a down B into there for some safeness.
* Matchup Unique Information: Nothing in particular.
Counterpick Advice:
* Stages to Counter-pick: FD, Battlefield
* Stages to Avoid: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise
This is a relatively neutral matchup but ZSS's speed running-wise and attack-wise add a slight advantage.
Jumpman pretty much got my main point out of the way, but I think the match is more along the lines of 6/4 or even 7/3 ZSS.
ROB has a lot of blind spots, and ZSS is very good at getting into one of them: above and to the front at about Plasma Whip's range. ROB can protect this spot with his laser, but once that's used up, ROB is very vulnerable.
Robo Burner moves very slowly, and most importantly, ROB can't airdodge from it, so take advantage of this to predict ROB's recovery and gimp him. If he's recovering low, this is a perfect opportunity to dsmash him and then spike him with Flip Jump.
My biggest bit of advice is, keep constant pressure, and be aggressive about it. Don't force him to come to you; a good ROB almost never will. Instead, go to him and pressure him from midrange. Never let up. Every moment you give ROB is another moment that he can run away and start to shoot at you from a distance or try to poke you. If you continuously pressure him aggressively and never let up, he'll eventually wear out and falter.
Finally, if you get ROB in the air, go on the offensive. You can generally do ROB a lot of damage, because he has very few options for turning the match around, aside from running away, especially if you stick to his blind spots.
Best CP stages ever:
Brinstar - ROB does terrible on Brinstar. I don't pretend to know why, but ROB mains all look crestfallen when I CP it if they don't think to ban it. On the other hand, Brinstar is a pretty decent stage for ZSS, especially if you start out on the right platform (automatically get only one suit piece). Basically, this just skews the match massively in ZSS' favor. You can also get quick KOs off the side.
Norfair - This is a combination of a bunch of little things. ROB's large size and slow speed, ZSS's combo ability, Tether mindgames, ZSS's excellent platform game, the super low ceiling. All of this is just good news for ZSS, bad news for ROB. If ROB bans Brinstar, go here.
ROB has a lot of blind spots, and ZSS is very good at getting into one of them: above and to the front at about Plasma Whip's range. ROB can protect this spot with his laser, but once that's used up, ROB is very vulnerable.
Robo Burner moves very slowly, and most importantly, ROB can't airdodge from it, so take advantage of this to predict ROB's recovery and gimp him. If he's recovering low, this is a perfect opportunity to dsmash him and then spike him with Flip Jump.
My biggest bit of advice is, keep constant pressure, and be aggressive about it. Don't force him to come to you; a good ROB almost never will. Instead, go to him and pressure him from midrange. Never let up. Every moment you give ROB is another moment that he can run away and start to shoot at you from a distance or try to poke you. If you continuously pressure him aggressively and never let up, he'll eventually wear out and falter.
Finally, if you get ROB in the air, go on the offensive. You can generally do ROB a lot of damage, because he has very few options for turning the match around, aside from running away, especially if you stick to his blind spots.
Best CP stages ever:
Brinstar - ROB does terrible on Brinstar. I don't pretend to know why, but ROB mains all look crestfallen when I CP it if they don't think to ban it. On the other hand, Brinstar is a pretty decent stage for ZSS, especially if you start out on the right platform (automatically get only one suit piece). Basically, this just skews the match massively in ZSS' favor. You can also get quick KOs off the side.
Norfair - This is a combination of a bunch of little things. ROB's large size and slow speed, ZSS's combo ability, Tether mindgames, ZSS's excellent platform game, the super low ceiling. All of this is just good news for ZSS, bad news for ROB. If ROB bans Brinstar, go here.
Snakeee
Smash Master
I agree with most of all this, but I think ROB is good on Norfair Ph00tbag.
and for the other guy
"* Stages to Counter-pick: FD, Battlefield
* Stages to Avoid: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise"
...was that for ZSS to do??? If anything you have this almost backwards. ZSS ***** on Rainbow, or at least that's MY personal favorite stage. Of course ROB is good there though, and you probably shouldn't counterpick him there. But, I don't think anyone should bother banning it as ZSS. But, Lylat Cruise is probably the perfect stage to take ROB to with ZSS. It gives him little room, and messes up his approach a bit. I also love d-smashing through the outer platforms while standing on them
. She can juggle him so well in the air on this stage.
FD is the stage I'd stay away from, because he is able to camp her a bit there. ZSS shouldn't have too much trouble closing the gap, but it's still a nuisance. Frigate Orpheon is probably worse for her though in this match up so if you can (depending on banning rules) avoid both of those.
and for the other guy
"* Stages to Counter-pick: FD, Battlefield
* Stages to Avoid: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise"
...was that for ZSS to do??? If anything you have this almost backwards. ZSS ***** on Rainbow, or at least that's MY personal favorite stage. Of course ROB is good there though, and you probably shouldn't counterpick him there. But, I don't think anyone should bother banning it as ZSS. But, Lylat Cruise is probably the perfect stage to take ROB to with ZSS. It gives him little room, and messes up his approach a bit. I also love d-smashing through the outer platforms while standing on them
. She can juggle him so well in the air on this stage. FD is the stage I'd stay away from, because he is able to camp her a bit there. ZSS shouldn't have too much trouble closing the gap, but it's still a nuisance. Frigate Orpheon is probably worse for her though in this match up so if you can (depending on banning rules) avoid both of those.
James Sparrow
Smash Master
I've had good luck cp'ing rainbow cruise vs rob.
In my experience, it's a good stage. Plus, OS didn't really care for it as late as September:
Add that to the fact that ZSS has more approach options, and has a lot more ability to KO off the top, and I think it's a strong counterpick as a result.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Yea, sorry about the stages there. I haven't played a good ZSS in a while, but I was going off what I would assume common sense, I used to play as her. That's why I didn't go too into detail. Thanks for finishing off what I started though. I also do agree with 6/4 although I don't think I'd go as far as 7/3, but it's close to that.I agree with most of all this, but I think ROB is good on Norfair Ph00tbag.
and for the other guy
"* Stages to Counter-pick: FD, Battlefield
* Stages to Avoid: Rainbow Cruise, Lylat Cruise"
...was that for ZSS to do??? If anything you have this almost backwards. ZSS ***** on Rainbow, or at least that's MY personal favorite stage. Of course ROB is good there though, and you probably shouldn't counterpick him there. But, I don't think anyone should bother banning it as ZSS. But, Lylat Cruise is probably the perfect stage to take ROB to with ZSS. It gives him little room, and messes up his approach a bit. I also love d-smashing through the outer platforms while standing on them
FD is the stage I'd stay away from, because he is able to camp her a bit there. ZSS shouldn't have too much trouble closing the gap, but it's still a nuisance. Frigate Orpheon is probably worse for her though in this match up so if you can (depending on banning rules) avoid both of those.
Snakeee
Smash Master
Hmm, I think Ph00tbag has something there with Norfair. Plus if ROB goes under any platform ZSS is on he gets d-smashed. It's just that you're going to be forced to approach him since he's going to camp from the opposite side of the stage (unless you play really gay and down B up and down the platform edges )
And, thanks for contributing GwJumpman
)And, thanks for contributing GwJumpman
You don't?(unless you play really gay and down B up and down the platform edges
Snakeee
Smash Master
No, I didn't say anything >_>You don't?
<_<
But, I would never do that the WHOLE match
Norfair is banned in most places now anyway though. I liked that stage
Especially because of the Golden Sun song for which I almost dropped my controller during a tourney match when I realized it was in the game.