Counterpicking Made Easy

[Affinity]

Bump.

Everyone should link this thread to their main's character boards. This thread needs more discussion.

 

[deepseadiva]

So I'm flirting with the idea of taking this to the Tactical Discussion board. Not that you Stage Discussion people aren't awesome and helpful, but I think my thread might have greater purpose there.

...would mods allow this?

 

[Affinity]

Probably not. I'll try and get more people in here.

 

[Drephigami]

every stage is good for meta lol hes so broked

 

[Steeler]

counterpicking against and FOR pokemon trainer is so ****ing hard and complicated. not to mention pt community is pretty small anyway.

however, i think you can put corneria as his best stage. all three kill well vertically, squirtle can do jab/tilt shenanigans on the fin and ivy can do some weird vine whip tether stuff on both the fin and booster. charizard doesn't mind the stage.

i think putting a best/worst stage for each poke wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[onionchowder]

Ness' best is most definitely Pirate Ship, not Delphino.

Pirate Ship has the tilting (stops marth CG, among other things), is curved inwards (making sh-2x-aerials and PKfire easier), has water (spikes, PKT camping, etc.), and the hollow-bottom thing (like in halberd) on both edges of the ship (PKT stuff)

Delphino's got... hollow main platform, moving (stops marth molestation, not as well as the tilting ship does tho), water (only sometimes), and walk-offs (only sometimes).

Yes, i know i only have 2 posts. I lurk.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

Add Frigate to Lucario's list. His wallcling makes it impossible to gimp him there. He has a lot of freedom there.

 

[pyrimadines]

In regards to Luigi's Mansion, Lucas can use this as a good stage. Most projectiles are made void due to the pillars, but Lucas' PK Fire create a 'fire wing' that goes past the platform and can hit other characters (probably not the small ones though). His PKT goes through the pillars too. Not to mention the teching potential inside the mansion allows him to live for crazy percents. As previously stated, the pillars are also good for stalling lucas' smashes. I don't remember how many times a spacie tried to over-B back expecting my up smash to end early and end up getting caught instead.

Jungle Japes is another good stage for Lucas (the best being Norfair). He can pretty much use his tether anywhere and his second jump is very long. Not to mention the high ceiling and the short sides (D-smash, and the Stick get early kills). Also, projectile spammers don't have an edge in this match. Although this hasn't been tested by myself personally, I believe that pkthundering people in the water as the current takes them under the stage could possibly have stagespiking potential enough to kill due to the current wiping them away.

 

[deepseadiva]

i think putting a best/worst stage for each poke wouldn't be a bad idea.

Added. At first I was thinking, "Well aren't you counterpicking against ALL THREE...?"
But then, I imagined a scenario where a player was having difficulties specifically against one of the Pokemon. So there.

Add Frigate to Lucario's list. His wallcling makes it impossible to gimp him there. He has a lot of freedom there.

Lucario already has a top three. Do you think Frigate is better than Luigi's Mansion, Yoshi's Island, or Pictochat?

 

[da K.I.D.]

for sonic, other good stages are Halberd, and rainbow cruise, his mobility vertically and horisontally on those stages are unmatched. not to mention the blastzones are close, partially alliviating his lack of kill moves thing.

and in my experiences PS1 is amazing for D3, just under D3

 

[MysticKenji]

Lucario already has a top three. Do you think Frigate is better than Luigi's Mansion, Yoshi's Island, or Pictochat?

It's better than both Picto and Yoshi's...but take down Picto.

 

[Omis]

FD is the worst for Falcon. He can''t use his good up air well because of the lack of platforms. He also gets camped ridiculously here. We all know that Falcon has no good approaches and that is made worse by the lack of platforms.

 

[deepseadiva]

I've moved this to the Tactical Discussion board!

Here's the link: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201816

 

[rehab]

Pictochat's banned real often, I wouldn't think it's a really reliable "top stage."

 

[Steeler]

rainbow cruise is really bad for ivysaur. norfair is pretty good.

ivysaur is like a worse olimar, seriously.

 

[deepseadiva]

This has been taken to the tactical discussion. Discuss there.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201816

Please.

 

[deepseadiva]

No it hasn't. I lied.

It seems my brief foray into the Tactical Discussion resulted in being buried under a flurry of "Meta Knight this" and "Meta Knight that", so I've decided to keep this open for those who'd still like discussion.

I've added some info I got from the duplicate thread, but I'll update this one as my "main."

 

[da K.I.D.]

sweetness, i really like this thread and the relative obscurity of it, its like my little treasure trove...

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

I love this thread, I may have to buy a ring.

 

[Monkey Wrench]

This thread is awesome.


By the way:

Donkey Kong
Best: Corneria, Brinstar
Worst: Skyworld, Frigate Orpheon, Rainbow Cruise

I think Jungle Japes should be added as one of DK's best.

 

[MysticKenji]

Would an IC main mind explaining to me why Pictochat is listed as one of their best?

 

[syco1337]

luigi's mansion= bad for falco, not even close to his best. his most reliable kill move, usmash, is hampered by high ceiling and you cant really camp or cg>spike.........

 

[deepseadiva]

Would an IC main mind explaining to me why Pictochat is listed as one of their best?

I don't recall the poster who said that...
Either way, I've asked the IC Board their opinions on their best and worsts. Now we wait.

EDIT: They like Smashville, and FD...

If any of you wouldn't mind helping, I'd appreciate you asking character Q&A threads, stage threads (if they have them), or general discussions. As I'll be doing myself occasionally.

Linking to posts would also be nice.

UPDATED: with Ness Boards info.

 

[Oddler]

One of Links best levels is the one they gave him: Bridge of Eldin. He can't be gimped from falling off a ledge and when the level splits in two you can run to the opposite end and shoot arrows at people. It was made for him.

 

[Deoxys]

I never understood this argument. Close blastzones are good for MK because he can kill earlier? Can't everyone kill earlier with closer blastzones? It's the lighter characters that suffer from them the most - MK is a light character, and thus he will suffer.

Meta Knight has the best recovery, by a significant margin. The only way MK dies in many matches is when he cannot recover quickly enough to stop his momentum until he hits the blast zone.

Also, I forgot to mention that if we wanted to order this we'd put Rainbow Cruise, Luigi's Mansion, Skyworld, and Yoshi's Island Melee, Corneria, Green Greens.

Explanation of why Yoshi's Island Melee is so bad for MK:

1. It's really dangerous to edgeguard.
2. Low ceiling.
3. MK usually either gimps of KOs off the sides, but horizontal blows can prevented by hitting the pipes or--to a greater extent--the hill on the right. Even with the low ceiling, it is hard for the MK player to KO above.
4. The least significant by far is that his Shuttle Loop (not already effected by points 1 & 2) is slightly less useful with the blocks in place.

Bridge of Eldin for Link. He can't be edge guarded with his lame jump by any Metaknights or Kirbys who follow him off the edge. Nice and flat for Link which is perfect for projectiles and Zair ****. When the level splits in two he can run for the opposite end of the blast zone to shoot arrows at people while they try to dodge until the bridge is rebuilt.

As a Link main I highly recommend Bridge of Eldin

Bridge of Eldin is banned.

So which is the one we should use, this or the new one?

 

[deepseadiva]

So which is the one we should use, this or the new one?

I'm updating both. This one being my main one. I'll update individually each thread though.

The list is also not in order, no need to argue over such trivialities.

 

[LordoftheMorning]

I was fighting my friend online. We both like Zelda (although I prefer Shiek). He picked Distant Planet, and I was kind of.... "O.o why?". Until he ducked under the stage, hit me with one of Zelda's powerful Uairs, and was able to Farore's back on without needing a ledge. I would conjecture that Distant Planet is good for Zelda because she can use the floor, platform heights (good for Usmash), and pellets (quick glide-tossable projectile that she doesn't normally have) to her advantage. Her recovery is also aided by the layout of the stage.

 

[DAGanmanert]

This thread is great..very helpful


ALSO: nice av u got goin on there Syco

 

[MysticKenji]

I was fighting my friend online. We both like Zelda (although I prefer Shiek). He picked Distant Planet, and I was kind of.... "O.o why?". Until he ducked under the stage, hit me with one of Zelda's powerful Uairs, and was able to Farore's back on without needing a ledge. I would conjecture that Distant Planet is good for Zelda because she can use the floor, platform heights (good for Usmash), and pellets (quick glide-tossable projectile that she doesn't normally have) to her advantage. Her recovery is also aided by the layout of the stage.

that campy ledge is good for quite a few others characters, like Snake and DDD as well
idk whether it would work as a top 3 for those characters though
few people play on this stage and really know it

 

[mc4]

now all i gotta do is memorize this stuff lol good work

 

[K 2]

Corneria is one of G&W's best stages...

 

[Stealth Raptor]

tack on FD for good. pika reaclly doensthave any other bad stages then mansion imo, it would be better to list what stage peach is exceptionally good at.

 

[SuSa]

Squirtle's best for me has to be Battlefield.

Squirtle's aerial game is amazing, and the small level and 3 platforms just makes him shine there. His usmash hits through the platforms ( I believe) making hyrdoplaning a better then usual mindgame, his dthrow is more epic here then at FD, and countless other reasons.

(juggling to infinite and beyond ftw)

 

[deepseadiva]

tack on FD for good. pika reaclly doensthave any other bad stages then mansion imo, it would be better to list what stage peach is exceptionally good at.

Heh, I think that's in the wrong thread. Maybe you meant here: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=194857 ?

 

[Calciphoce]

Good list, but I would definitely argue that Yoshi's Island is an amazing stage for Wolf. His projectile goes just over the bumps in the stage. The ground is "scarrable" from each edge. I've gotten several kills doing this. However, the most important part is that Wolf's recovery is 10x better because as long as you aim towards the ledge at all you will make it due to there being walls all the way down.

 

[deepseadiva]

Added info from the Ness, Pikachu, and Zelda boards. I'm also adding myself that Marth does less than ideally on Brinstar. It works against his recovery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUa99hKP41A

 

[The Milk Monster]

This thread makes me happy.
I don't have to scavenge all through my main's character boards to figure out which stages to counterpick.
Is Halbred on Snakes because he can throw into Halbred's many projectiles?
And is Delfino on Ness's because you can throw off the side very easy with his beast throws, and you can recover whenever?
PK Fire traps could set up nice for those throws too, cause you won't know when to expect them.

 

[The Milk Monster]

Also too, I would say one of Snake's bad stages is possibly Final D.
That ledge kills pretty bad.
And one of Dedede's best's should be Delfino and Castle Siege, those walk off's help him a lot.

 

[SuSa]

I don't know how I missed this either, I forgot about Counterpicks.


Ivysaur and Squirtle -LOVE- Luigi's Mansion.

Squirtle can set up Jab Locks and Ivysaur's Bullet seed + disjointed hitboxes is like 10x the **** here.

My PT beat a MK there, just because of how **** it is for PT. Even Charizard does decent here because its hard to camp vs him.

God I love that stage for PT <3 (all 3 pokemon)

 

[deepseadiva]

PT already has three bests. Would you replace Corneria, Castle Siege, or Halberd with Luigi's?

PFFT. And I just notice that it's also listed as one of his worsts. Lol. Opposing opinions.