Jigglypuff Moveset Discussion

[Exegguter]

You see, its Drill to rest the combo that is a gimmick, rest itself is not. There are many times during a match when you are touching the opponent and are able to do rest so if you practice predicting when you'll touch your opponent rest will be anything but avoidable. Yes its easier said than done but if Jigglypuff were ever to be seen as a good character her metagame would be soley based on rest just like how it is in Melee.

I can see how people would disagree with me by saying fair is her best move, but by far? You've got to be kidding me.

I don't think fair is her best anyway? Her grabs are a huge part in her metagame. Grabs are so important to rack up damage. I think we can all agree that fair belongs to her top 5 moves though with rest grabs pound and dair.

 

[Jigglymaster]

I don't think fair is her best anyway? Her grabs are a huge part in her metagame. Grabs are so important to rack up damage. I think we can all agree that fair belongs to her top 5 moves though with rest grabs pound and dair.

I kind of see all grabs as the same move, they all do 10% and you can't follow up with any of them so the only reason to pick a grab is if it isn't stale. But that alone isn't good enough to beat fair's usefullness, fair deals more damage and it kills.

My top 5 is
1. Rest
2. Fair
3. Grabs
4. Drill
5. Pound

 

[Exegguter]

I kind of see all grabs as the same move, they all do 10% and you can't follow up with any of them so the only reason to pick a grab is if it isn't stale. But that alone isn't good enough to beat fair's usefullness, fair deals more damage and it kills.

Well, that is if you use the same grab over and over again, if you use all four, it will do 10% damage (excluding pummels) each time.So I kinda fail to understand how your grab will get stale, if you have 4 of them and pummels? I can tell grabs are a huge huge huge huge part of the damage that I do to my opponent. On top of that, fair can't be used the whole match, if you think wisely you wont be using fair around 80 tll 105. Grabs are ALWAYS usefull.

Don't get me wrong here, it's deff one of her best moves and I freakin love it. I just like grabs slightly more.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Well, that is if you use the same grab over and over again, if you use all four, it will do 10% damage (excluding pummels) each time.So I kinda fail to understand how your grab will get stale, if you have 4 of them and pummels? I can tell grabs are a huge huge huge huge part of the damage that I do to my opponent. On top of that, fair can't be used the whole match, if you think wisely you wont be using fair around 80 tll 105. Grabs are ALWAYS usefull.

Don't get me wrong here, it's deff one of her best moves and I freakin love it. I just like grabs slightly more.

What part of my post said that the grabs would ever get stale? I stated that they all do 10% damage and you can't follow up with any of them so to pick which one you should use you should use the one that isn't stale. I'm very well aware about rotating throws to avoid stale moves I do them all the time, I even stated it in my how to play as jiggs video. I fail to understand how you even came to that conclusion.

Also, my list is based on what WINS us the match. Rest comes first, fair comes second. I can go a couple matches without needing grabs but I can't think of a match were I haven't used Fair before.

 

[Exegguter]

What part of my post said that the grabs would ever get stale? I stated that they all do 10% damage and you can't follow up with any of them so to pick which one you should use you should use the one that isn't stale. I'm very well aware about rotating throws to avoid stale moves I do them all the time, I even stated it in my how to play as jiggs video. I fail to understand how you even came to that conclusion.

Also, my list is based on what WINS us the match. Rest comes first, fair comes second. I can go a couple matches without needing grabs but I can't think of a match were I haven't used Fair before.

Uhm this, made me wonder about that:

so the only reason to pick a grab is if it isn't stale.

I never stated you weren't aware of that...also I never watched your how to play jiggs vids, hence me not knowing.

If you can get a couple of matches without any grabs then that's pretty neat. I don't know any match where I didn't grab, like any, I can't play jiggs without them. This is leading to personal playstyle here which isn't the argument.


As for your list. I assumed you were going for the moves which were the most usefull. If it's about killing/getting your ko, grabs are like at the bottom. But if it's about doing damge I think they're at the top.


Oh and fair is most likely my killing move 2 lol, I just grab more then I fair.

 

[T-block]

He meant to say just pick the throw that isn't stale... I think it's pretty obvious.

F-air is amaaaaazing. I think it is her best move in general, for reasons already stated. It's good enough in all situations that as a player we should be thinking about whether we want to keep it fresh.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Rollout

Online: Reliable killer/10

Offline: dependent on player:

can't react worth ****: 7/10
Can react: 5/10
Can react and knows how it works: 1/10

5 as in it's pretty much a coin flip when using it correctly.

For the person who knows how to beat it and can react, it's awful. Take a player like me. Everytime a Jigglypuff uses rollout against me it's a free punish. I f-smash them out everytime with Kirby. This ******* guy once tried it on me in friendlies and was surprised I knew how to punish it. Probly thought I was free because I'm a girl, but that's another story.

He lost btw.

overall it's a gamble move. I wouldn't even rate it.. I'd just say Gamble/10 because it's so player and situational depended

 

[T-block]

We're doing f-air now, SNO ^^

I updated the thread title for you, LzR.

 

[-LzR-]

Thanks, I am so busy with school work and everything still, so if some mod wants to add some moves to the OP, go on, but I will update it eventually anyways later.

 

[EraOfGames]

This like her only move that doesnt put you at a frame disadvantage on hit aside from Falling uair and grab at low percents. And it combos too.

How do you know how much frame advantage there is? I doubt fair gets frame advantage..
Dair, maybe.

 

[*JuriHan*]

We're doing f-air now, SNO ^^

I updated the thread title for you, LzR.

oops sorry

F-air... depends on what you need it for.

For damage building, it's great and can even combo sometimes.

For killing... It's hard to say. Offline people can react to it and it can be very predictible, further complicating the sweepspot.

Oh god the sweetspot. Ridiculous it requires one. Unstaled F-air isn't even that strong for something that needs to be sweetspotted. Plus factor in if you screw it up it's going to be staled. I said this before- Sakura did EVERYTHING to make sure Jigglypuff struggles with so much of her game.

I don't like it. If I get a kill with f-air, I consider myself lucky.

5/10 for killing
10/10 for building damage/mixups/offstage/ect

 

[-LzR-]

Updated OP with Ftilt and Rollout.
Keep talking just a little more about Fair.

 

[Jigglymaster]

oops sorry

F-air... depends on what you need it for.

For damage building, it's great and can even combo sometimes.

For killing... It's hard to say. Offline people can react to it and it can be very predictible, further complicating the sweepspot.

Oh god the sweetspot. Ridiculous it requires one. Unstaled F-air isn't even that strong for something that needs to be sweetspotted. Plus factor in if you screw it up it's going to be staled. I said this before- Sakura did EVERYTHING to make sure Jigglypuff struggles with so much of her game.

I don't like it. If I get a kill with f-air, I consider myself lucky.

5/10 for killing
10/10 for building damage/mixups/offstage/ect

wait wait wait. are you mixing up moves or something? What move do you use to kill with Jigglypuff if you gave F-air a 5/10 in killing? How do you go about killing Heavyweight characters like Snake, DDD, and DK? Rest won't work against them till very high %, rollout is too predictable, what other move do you kill with?

 

[-LzR-]

Dashattack?

 

[*JuriHan*]

wait wait wait. are you mixing up moves or something? What move do you use to kill with Jigglypuff if you gave F-air a 5/10 in killing? How do you go about killing Heavyweight characters like Snake, DDD, and DK? Rest won't work against them till very high %, rollout is too predictable, what other move do you kill with?

hmm maybe I am being too harsh on f-air but to me getting it to sweetspot is coin flip. It's a usable kill move for Jigglypuff, but as far as kill moves in general go it leaves much to be desired because it can sourspot when you REALLY need the sweet. I usually punish with f-smash or get some situational kill. F-air offstage is legit though...

here is offline of me vs snake (its old though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I75Dmz-Et9M&list=PL43F451A59B150FC7&index=1

and yeah i did get a dash attack... but it was situational... he was super close to blastzone


f-air, dash, f-smash

 

[Jigglymaster]

Dashattack?

Dash attack is much more telegraphed and is weaker than Fair. Not to mention the cooldown time on that move is pretty bad, especially when compared to F-air.

hmm maybe I am being too harsh on f-air but to me getting it to sweetspot is coin flip. It's a usable kill move for Jigglypuff, but as far as kill moves in general go it leaves much to be desired because it can sourspot when you REALLY need the sweet. I usually punish with f-smash or get some situational kill. F-air offstage is legit though...

here is offline of me vs snake (its old though)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I75Dmz-Et9M&list=PL43F451A59B150FC7&index=1

and yeah i did get a dash attack... but it was situational... he was super close to blastzone


f-air, dash, f-smash

I mean, f-smash works from time to time but there's no way you should ever rely on it. Besides we already gave Fsmash a 4.5/10. I don't know what the snake was thinking of trying to grab you like that it was pretty dumb lol. But don't expect to kill a Metaknight or Diddy like that anytime soon. Or more like anyone really good for that matter. I don't know what so hard about getting the sweetspot with fair is quite easy for me. When I want to get a kill with F-air I'll get a kill with it. F-air is the 2nd best move behind Rest and the best move when you're against heavyweights.

 

[-LzR-]

It's a lot harder to sourspot than sweetspot fair. It shouldn't happen much on accident.

 

[Exegguter]

Uhm lzr i highly disagree with how you put the numbers on the op thread. You gave rollout a 2 dsmash a 2 and ftilt a 3.5 ?!?! Please tell me your joking saying rollout = dsmash and < ftilt. Are you putting your own ratings here did you even look at our ratings xD? Please take all ratings given, take those and make an avarage number of it.



How is dsmash even getting a 2? it's the worst move in the entire game, wtf. And how is ftilt better then rollout? lol.

 

[Noobicidal]

I find no real issues with his numbers, but I don't mind him using the average system, no matter how off the numbers are due to bias.

 

[-LzR-]

The numbers point is to give a first glance image about the moves effectiveness. It's purpose is to not put moves in order and aren't set in stone. If a move has 4 and another has 2, it doesn't mean it's twice as good.
Don't take the numbers so seriously. I just put there a quick look of the numbers you gave. I won't bother putting them into a calculator and not all of you give a rating. Also, everyone has their own criteria for rating so it's entirely biased.

 

[Exegguter]

Yeah but common if someone is watching the op, the would assume rollout is as worse as downsmash and ftilt is a better move then rollout. I don't mind the exact numbers either but THAT is srsly bs. Everyone could say it's not true. And if you say the numbers are baised. Don't put them there then in the first place. I wouldn't mind it. Or name it like:

-terrible
-bad
-ok
-pretty good
-very good

Which puts all of the trash moves in the same catagorie without people thinking 'oh that move is better'.

 

[Noobicidal]

I don't mind the exact numbers either but THAT is srsly subjective.

Fixed that for you.

 

[Exegguter]

Are you saying dsmash and rollout are exactly of the same use xD?!?!?!?!

 

[Noobicidal]

Are you saying dsmash and rollout are exactly of the same use xD?!?!?!?!

To me, yes. Then again, I believe both moves are utter crap, and a one or two point difference between the two moves won't make them smell any better.

Yay, subjectivity.

 

[Exegguter]

To me, yes.

Stopped reading after this.

 

[Noobicidal]

Stopped reading after this.

ur so silly rofl XD

 

[Jigglymaster]

wait wait wait. Rollout got a 2/10

ok thats it, I'm not bothering with this thread anymore its auto fail now.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I'm just watching :3

The OP is silly-esque. the discussions where it's at.
You should just have a link to the first post in the discussion.

 

[-LzR-]

Rollout is a pure gimmick move. You shouldn't hit it with it. I have seen the difference between an opponent who can counter it and who can't. It's big.

 

[Exegguter]

wait wait wait. Rollout got a 2/10

ok thats it, I'm not bothering with this thread anymore its auto fail now.

I agree and second this statement for a full 100%.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Roll-out doesn't deserve a 2.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

It deserves a 9001!

 

[Jigglymaster]

We demand a recount on Rollout

The three ponies and Exegguter say so.

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

Hahaha. And thats how you KNOW we're serious.

 

[Exegguter]

We demand a recount on Rollout

The three ponies and Exegg say so.

Fixed xD and yes and I demand dsmash a ---->1<-----

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

I agree.
:D

So, whats next?

 

[Jigglymaster]

I agree.
:D

So, whats next?

Nothing cause I'm going on strike until we get a Rollout Re-count.

 

[EraOfGames]

Rollout should be rated on w/e the average is. It should also be stated that some puffs think it is good and some think it is downright terrible; of controversial use. That would be fair to everyone.

 

[GeneralWoodman]

Sounds like someone's not a Ludacris fan...

 

[-LzR-]

The reason you hit with rollout is because they don't know the MU. When I play against some people the first time, I charge rollout, release and they try to punish but don't realize I can just come back twice and die.