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Ftilt says hello.
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Just try not to buffer a roll when you do this.Oh fyi, you can smash DI in shield, which means multihitting attacks like G-dubs bair are shieldgrabble by all characters if they read it and smash DI well.
O_o... Never knew this. Can someone link me to a thread with more data.Oh fyi, you can smash DI in shield, which means multihitting attacks like G-dubs bair are shieldgrabble by all characters if they read it and smash DI well.
Oh I thought that topic was about aiming your shield or something. Thanks.Looking on the first page helps:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=248200
I have 2 theories as to how it can be done, I'll try testing.
Pokemon Trainer has recently been proven to be more competent than he is usually given credit for. However, I find Pokemon Trainer's recent success to be in that most people simply don't know the match-up. A lot of people say that Pokemon Trainer should be really good because of having three Pokemon, and this means you can almost always find a positive match-up. However, I think that logic is terribly flawed. Since you have three Pokemon and three stocks, you're going to use each Pokemon once. Most Pokemon Trainers will start with Squirtle as he's the best Pokemon, and probably A Tier individually. They also switch off Ivysaur instantly because despite beast kill power, he's extremely gimp-able if you break his zoning, and considered bottom tier. Charizard himself is mid-tier. The problem comes in the fact that even considering you might have one advantaged MU, you also have to consider that you have one or more disadvantaged MUs. If that bad MU is Squirtle or Charizard, then you're pretty much out 1.5 stocks. Obviously, this is a flaw in the character design, and lands PT in D-Tier.
Yeah ok. stopped reading right there and have no reason to believe anything else you said in the OP
Homing attack has good mind-game utility, and gets Sonic out of juggles.
Bair can be used on Snake without triggering a grenade, period.Please, do name one thing he can do.
Bair hits grenade. (that's his best range)
Grab doesn't exactly have awesome range.
He has.....what option that are better then those two in that situation?
He has "don't approach". We powershield our grenade, dash away, pull grenade, start backing into you slowly... and... reset situation?
I just want to clear this up. Game & Watch can still bair Marth and MK's shields, he just needs to space turtle at its tip and be retreating once making contact. Each hit against their shield produces subtle knockback, that along with DI'ing away will influences DS/SL's reach. I've tested this frame-by-frame, and G&W actually has some wiggle room, he doesn't have to be perfect to pull this off.G&W can bair the entire cast safely and reliably with the exception of Meta Knight (when he is on the ground; it's safe if MK is in the air) and Marth (but Marth has to take a big risk and use Dolphin Slash to punish it, so Marth eats usmash if he attempts to counter bair when it isn't coming).
Then refute them, if you think they're wrong. If you don't know enough to refute them, than how can you be sure they're overestimating the character in the first place?People over-estimate their characters too much...
I think the point is that without fatigue, Squirtle is A-tier. His bair is really safe on block, his jab is one frame, and is actually good, unlike ZSS's, he's TINY, which makes him nearly impossible for most of the cast to hit consistently, let alone grab (so much for grab releases), his dthrow hits like a truck, and he can also KO with usmash (which has wicked range) and fair off the stage. I'll be honest, Squirtle strikes me as a really small, lightweight Wario who just KOs with different moves. He would definitely be A tier if fatigue didn't come into play.Squirtle is in no way A-tier Material Think about who you just put in A-Tier
Wario and Falco, You are comparing squirtle to wario and falco. That is just ridiculous. Alot of people have an idea of pokemon trainer as being a squirtle who never gets tired and is out for all three stock, but fatique is a huge deal and comes out when you need that extra power to land the KO. With several characters having amazing and ridiculous grab releases on squirtle, his extremely light weight (tied with GaW for 2nd lightest but has no bucket braking) comes into play in a great way. The Grab released are synonymous to warios grab releases but squirtle doesnt have the weight taht wario has.
Nah... No thanks. Arguments never really get anywhere on the forums. I know from experience. Just stating my opinion anyway.Then refute them, if you think they're wrong. If you don't know enough to refute them, than how can you be sure they're overestimating the character in the first place?
YouNah... No thanks. Arguments never really get anywhere on the forums. I know from experience. Just stating my opinion anyway.
and youDJBrowny said:Yeah ok. stopped reading right there and have no reason to believe anything else you said in the OP
he's definitely A tier, but not for the reasons you've listed. DDD is a notoriously bad approach artist, he's just too big and limited. on top of that, he's not really versatile at all...sure, his recovery is good, but his extremely slow aerial speed makes some levels like the Metroid stages a big pain.Personally I think Dedede should be in the A tier, simply because he is a good character to camp or approach with. D3 does have some really lopsided MUs like ICs, Falco, Olimar, etc. Mainly the smaller, quick characters. But, D3 has versatility to play on nearly any stage due to his recovery, something that some of the top characters lack (ICs, Snake). Combine that with his weight, killing power, and his strange amount of speed, he should be higher.
No, G&W can't. If you start your bair so late to hit us below the hips, we should have shielded. You commit into your attack and hit the grenade.Bair can be used on Snake without triggering a grenade, period.
If he's holding a nade standard or as an item and facing away, everything from the hips down is vulnerable.
If he holds it forward, his front will always be sensitive to a tipper bair.
If he shield drops, and keeps his guard up, his whole upper body can be penetrated.
When the nades an item, G&W should be spacing bair on his lower body. (when he shields with it also)
Mind you, he needs to be timing the bair correctly, and DI'ing backward to not continue into the nade. But really, the simplest mindset a G&W player can have while doing this is to hit where the nade isn't, then retreat.
I just want to clear this up. Game & Watch can still bair Marth and MK's shields, he just needs to space turtle at its tip and be retreating once making contact. Each hit against their shield produces subtle knockback, that along with DI'ing away will influences DS/SL's reach. I've tested this frame-by-frame, and G&W actually has some wiggle room, he doesn't have to be perfect to pull this off.
Too, spacing the turtle on a shield is very distinct opposed to standard spacing. You have to keep in mind that the shield *usually* has a larger hurtbox than the actual character, the knockback from each hit, and retreating into the ground at an angle (slides G&W across the floor, and farther away from his opponent while suffering from lag).
Wario reminds me of Dr. Robotnik somehow.Why does everybody Not pick wario for top teir. bet because he looks weird, other than that, who really cares bout chaingrabs!?
Hes tiny, but so are his hitboxes, and almost everytime you use an aerial you want to land instead of autocanceling with squirtle, making him very easy to sheild grab. And Height hardly affects how often someone can get grabbed, you act as if hes wario or something, squirtle has the same chance of being grabbed as someone else. His dthrow is strong, second stronged throw in the game i beleive, but when do you need it? around 120% maybe? by then you are fatigued and it doesnt KO until 150-160%, Every usmash is blockable on reaction even hydroplanned ones. A-Tier? Take a look at whos in A-Tier, he cannot compare even if he had no fatigue those characters are just too good, I have played against those characters with PT hacks on and i still had trouble.I think the point is that without fatigue, Squirtle is A-tier. His bair is really safe on block, his jab is one frame, and is actually good, unlike ZSS's, he's TINY, which makes him nearly impossible for most of the cast to hit consistently, let alone grab (so much for grab releases), his dthrow hits like a truck, and he can also KO with usmash (which has wicked range) and fair off the stage. I'll be honest, Squirtle strikes me as a really small, lightweight Wario who just KOs with different moves. He would definitely be A tier if fatigue didn't come into play.
I'm going to have to disagree with you Coney.he's definitely A tier, but not for the reasons you've listed. DDD is a notoriously bad approach artist, he's just too big and limited. on top of that, he's not really versatile at all...sure, his recovery is good, but his extremely slow aerial speed makes some levels like the Metroid stages a big pain.
yeah, please message that to me! for some reason i just can't beat candy. i can go even with people around his level but snake is just a mystery @_@Snake and Diddy are to very difficult character to approach in general. Nearly every character has trouble approaching them. Seib has a good strategy that he uses to fight Snakes. I'll get it for you, helped me.